Flaky software could crash your car

[Glaucus]

Personally, I never cared for drive-by-wire, I think it's a stupid idea! A simple electrical glitch and the entire car would be disabled! If my Supra was drive-by-wire, I'd probably be dead now as my battery died while I was on the highway a few months back. If it were a drive-by-wire car, my entire car would have been out of control at over 100km/hr at night time, and without the possibility of using my brakes. Seems like a dumb idea to me.

  - Mike

[Glaucus]

That was the first time I ever broke 100 MPH on a raised highway! Of course, you either go with the flow or get run over.

Give me a break! You haven't driven until you've drivin in Athens, Greece! It's insane!!!

  - Mike

[Glaucus]

Everybody thinks they're a good driver. The road deaths statistics disagree.

Perhaps, and you can always spot the bad drivers; they're the ones following the speed limit!

  - Mike

[Glaucus]

I OBEY the traffic laws. Why?? 'Cos they're here to protect me.

I don't buy that. Only you can protect yourself. Obey the laws if you wish, but it's only your alertness that will prevent you from making a mistake.

I've been invloved in two accidents, neither my fault. The first was when a car spun out in front of me while attempting a lane change under VERY icy conditions. He started doing 360's infront of me and I plowed into him, no way I could have prevented that. The other was when a guy ran a red light, and if it wasn't for the fact that another car was blocking my view, I probably would have stopped in time to prevent that accident (which wrote off my first Supra).

Anyway, I was obeying the traffic laws, and so was the other guy in the first accident, he spun out because he had ####ty tires or just didn't realize how slippery it was that day. The second guy wasn't paying attention and ran the light. If both were more alert to the conditions and the traffic signals, neither accident would have happened.

Ultimately, one needs to compensate for other people's poor driving skills. It's one thing to tail gate or weave through traffic at high speeds, but it's another to exceed the speed limit in an otherwise empty street under good conditions. Personally, I find that those drivers who follow the traffic laws to the T are the worst drivers - and mostly because they are insecure behind the wheel and hope the traffic laws will somehow protect them. I at least know perfectly well what my car is and is not capable of because I've taken it to it's limits and beyod. As a result, my rear wheel drive sports car has never been stuck in snow or in a ditch.

  - Mike

[Glaucus]

heh, the point I was trying to make about running the red was that there's a difference between people who purposefully disobey the traffic laws and those that do so by accident. For example, few people speed and swerve through traffic by accident. Conversely, only those with a death wish would blindly drive through a red light. I'm NOT defending the guy who blew through the red light at all, and in fact would argue he's a bad driver but NOT because he broke the law but because he wasn't paying attention. Hell, I've driven through a red light safely, after stopping at the light at 4am and noticing there are no other cars anywhere insight. Does that make me dangerous? Hardly! If you wanna obey the rules to a T, go ahead, but don't delude yourself that consciously disobeying particular traffic laws under particular conditions makes you a dangerous driver.

Anyway, I thought I already stated that a good driver is an alert driver who knows the capabilities of their car, any monkey can obey the limit. And why do I think those drivers who obey all the traffic laws are the worst? Because these drivers, in my opinion, are ill equipped to deal with extraordinary conditions that my arise. I find their two hands on the wheel, driving exactly the speed limit a sign of insecurity! Safe driving is about dealing with the unexpected. A good driver knows how their car reacts to all weather and road conditions, and the best way to do that is to take the car to the limits on a regular basis. Of course this doesn't mean driving like a maniac through traffic, this means testing your cars turning and breaking capabilities while on remote roads or parking lots. In otherwords, experience is a big factor as well.

  - Mike

[Glaucus]

And if you think it's only military jets using "fly by wire" then remember that both Airbus and Boeing airliners also have a computer interface between the pilot/s and control surfaces...

A cheery thought for you all

Although true, and I already knew that, military and commercial aircraft have teams of mechanics and technitians constantly checking and upgrading these vehicles. Cars tend to get far less tender loving care, and are often abused. Not only that, many of the mechanics out there are of dubious quality, often improperly fixing the simplest of things.

  - Mike

[Glaucus]

Don't be a tw@t mike. That is the most stupid thing I've heard allday and I work in a Council office!

I'm sticking with my original statement. Anyone doesing exactly 60 in a 60 zone is either a newbie or insecure. All experienced and confident drivers do slightly more, usually 65 or 70 in a 60 zone.

  - Mike

[Glaucus]

What do you want, Mike, a cookie? Even RACE car drivers get into accidents and that's all they do is drive their cars, learning the 'ins and outs' of their machine. You think that 'cos you know your car, you're above the laws of the road and they don't pertain to you? Once again, you've proven my point that ignorance is what kills people. So since you 'know' your car, you feel that you can just 'whip' through traffic how you please??

Here, read this report and educate yourself: Is speed killing us?



  - Mike

[Glaucus]

and most of the cars systems are integrated into the computer (engine management system, Car audio, car alarm, smart lock, basically everything with electrinics).

all that controlled by one, central ECU??? Hmmm...  Something sounds weird. What if you wanna install an after market stereo???

There are actually 3 sensors in and around the accelerator peddle.

Throttle position sensors? Hmmm...  That reminds me, my budy's Intrepid kept dying on him after running for a few minutes. He got it to limp home, and the next day toed it to the dealer. The problem turned out to be the crank angle sensor. This sensor basically determines which spark plug is to fire (as opposed to the older style which used a distributer, geared directly to the crank). Anyway, with the sensor faulty, the engine kept losing it's timing, eventually not knowing which cylinder to fire and the car would just die. This tells us two things: 1) Your on board computers are only as good as your sensors are, and 2) maintenance of these sensors is only as good as the computer diagnostic feedback. It's quite possible that the sensor was going for some time now and that they were driving around with less then optimum timing - resulting in poor feul economy and possibly even damaging the engine. If you're gonna put so much trust in these sensors then the car needs to be able to self-test the sensors and report any problems in a MEANINGFUL manner (not just a Service Engine light).

Also, like others have mentioned, military fly-by-wire systems exist, and work well, but they also often have redundant systems. I've yet to see any redundancy in cars yet.

In terms of brakes, these are one thing that will always stay like the old way. Not computer controlled thats for sure.

Ah, but that's exactly what drive-by-wire is all about. No more hydrolic breaks and even the steering will be done electronically, not mechanically.

  - Mike

[Glaucus]

BMW's are crap - believe me I work in a authroised repairer, and the number of faults we have is tremendous.

Well, according to Consumer Reports, BMW was the only German car maker to be in the top 50% in terms of quality control/reliability. VW was the worst ranking German car maker, ranking lower then some North American makers. Audi was slightly better, as was Mercedes. Topping the list were all the Japanese makers (none of which made it to the bottom 50%). Toyota and Honda were the top two in quality/reliability.

EDIT: Sorry, forgot about Porsche. They ranked in the top 50% as well, but can't remember how they compared to BMW.

And yes, Consumer Reports needs to be taken with a grain of salt, but it's typically pretty close. Toyota/Honda have always had the reputation of being top in terms of reliability, while VW has been known to kinda suck in that department (which is too bad, as otherwise they make some nice cars).

  - Mike