The AmigaOne is NOT "just a Teron board"!

[Glaucus]

Well, thats a pity, isn't it? I mean that you can call anything "Amiga". I remember a time when the brand "Amiga" stood for exciting technology ...

Well, I think the latest AGP cards like the Radeon 9700 Pro are actually quite exciting!  There is exciting hardware out there and the sooner we can adopt the newer standards the sooner we can use them on our next generation Amigas!

What I think people really miss is the snob factor.  Amiga had custom chips that no one else had so it made us feel supperior.  Those days are gone for ever, we just have to deal with the fact that PC and Mac users will have access to the same hardware as we will.  We just gotta get to the point where we can use AGP v3.0, SerialATA, IEEE1394, USB2.0 etc...

  - Mike

[Glaucus]

Some of what I see now associated with the word Amiga is technology that is not interesting nor exciting nor particularily excellent in my opinion. What we have seen of the AmigaDE is mediocre at best. The AmigaOne represents, in terms of its PC related hardware (old AGP, old USB, etc.), adequate but yesterdays technology. PowerPC is nice, but the arguments for x86 are pretty convincing as well. Name one thing the board has special to warrant calling it Amiga. Why not just call it the Teron-CX.

Oh give me a break, the A500 wasn't all that exciting either but they called it an Amiga and it sold like crazy!  Aside from it's OCS chipset, it had nothing really going for it until 3rd party manufacturers decided to add a bunch of add-ons for it.  I've always seen the current AmigaOne design as just an entry level machine, much like the A500.  It gets the job done with little in terms of bells and whistles.  This is a decent way to enter the market by flooding it with a low cost platform that can more easily be adopted by the masses.  I still see PC motherboards with similar specs targetted as an entry level system, so it's not THAT ancient.  Honestly, I think they should have made the A1 even cheaper, but that's another thread.

I fully expect a more high-end spec AmigaOne to come around eventually that will be targetted more at the high end user.  However, I see no point in doing so until we see how AmigaOS4 fairs.  If the market grows you can bet your last dollar there will be newer and better AmigaOne hardware platforms built.

  - Mike

[Glaucus]

since when did Amiga.inc make motherboards? since when where they a hardware company at all?... didnt know they competed with hardware companys... this is news to me...i thought they said they would be a 'software only' company and thus would want to sell as much software as possible./

You just have to be difficult don't ya?  

It's no secret that thendic/bPlan are closely alligned with a software company that is in DIRECT competition with Amiga/Hyperion.  The relationship of Pegasos with MorphOS is much like that of the AmigaOne and AmigaOS4.0.  Since bPlan are not interested in licensing OS4 for their hardware this shows where their loyalties really lie.  Noting the above, I think it's clear what Samface was getting at.

 - Mike

[Glaucus]

I'm sorry, you are at very least misinformed, but more likely since you started this thread, you are trying to misinform the Amiga Community. The Amiga One board is a Teron board, its the same Teron board shown at Linuxworld, the same board that is available for much cheaper from multiple vendors.

Although I agree with what you say about the x86 motherboards, CPU & speed issues (although an AMD chip would probably be faster and cheaper ;-) ), I must ask how you are so confident about the above quote.  Just because a MB has the same chipset and feature set does not mean it's the same MB.  If you look at the specs for some of the leatest ASUS, Gigabyte or MSI boards, they all have the same chipsets and features and even their model numbers are similar.  Yet, when it comes to benchmark timings they are all quite different.  Unless you've had all the MBs side by side and performed exhaustive tests to compare their performance and reliability then you really can't say what you are saying above.

  - Mike

[Glaucus]

wouldnt that make all the more sense to bring their OS onto it's platform? to 'compete' with it?

That's not what is being argued here.  In fact, if it were up to me, if i was incharge of Amiga Inc I'd go out of my way to make it run on the Pegasos just to make it harder for MorphOS.  I would buy a bunch of pegasos boards, license the AmigaOS to myself and sell Pegasos boards with the OS4 BootBIOS myself along with OS4.  That would maintain complete control of the license agreament and still position the platform to compete with MorphOS on it's home turf.  In the end Thendic would be begging me for a license deal of their own.

  - Mike

[Glaucus]

Hey mips_proc, just thought I'd mention that your avatar looks like a cowboy holding a flag in one hand a cock blowing it's load in another.  That's a bit weird, shouldn't the cock be between the guy's legs?!?   8-)

  - Mike

[Glaucus]

maybe you could draw that and It would be more interesting comming from you...you could stick a 'boing ball' on him and sell him for a few bucks to a zealot who likes Amiga/Stick Man/Perverse art...

Hey, let's not forget I'm not the one who drew it!  

I'm just buggin ya, although unfortunately I can no longer look at that avatar and not burst out laughing....  Although bak_2_amiga's avatar is by far the best!  I'm gonna have to send that to my ex, she loves Linux!

Hmmm...  Perhaps I will have to come up with my own "art".

  - Mike

[Glaucus]

This Anti Amiga Inc. PR of yours simply must be stopped before you kill the little chance that we have left, if any at all exits.

I think you give those guys too much credit.  Btw, How's Pro-Pos doing?

  - Mike

[Glaucus]

I'll try to keep this short... To me it seems like you have totally misinterpreted everything that I have said so far (dunno what the "& co." people have said). IMO, the compulsory dongling/licensing/bundling/yadayada restrictions applied to AmigaOS is CONTRADICTORY to actually SELLING your product, AmigaOS. It's an obstacle in the way of seeing even a moderate commercial success and future for AmigaOS. Some try to excuse it with that the obstacle is easy to overcome, but there's no valid reason to have that obstacle there at all.

Apple does it and they get away with it.  MacOS only runs (or is supposed to run) on hardware built by Apple.  Amiga is actually a fair bit more open about it as anyone can build the hardware, all they need to do is get a license to allow the OS to run on it.  It's a dongle, but I can't totally blame them for it either.  Realistically, a legit owner of an AmigaOne and OS4 would have nothing to worry about.  In fact they would never even know about it.

Having said that, Amiga Inc and Hyperion are small enough to adapt and change policy rather quickly.  If it turns out this dongle aproach is counter productive it can easily be dropped.  As a consumer it's definetly not something I'd lose sleep over.

  - Mike

[Glaucus]

Spot on, Eyetech think by saying something works on a Amiga gives then the right to increase the price where they are making something crazy like 900% profit on various standard hardware which is DISGUSTING, and what more is disgusting the main die hards think Eyetech is the best thing since sliced bread and are worthy of amigans support,

Okay, you tell me how much a competing motherboard + equivalent CPU goes for!  According to your claim that eyetech inflates their price tag by 900% I should be able to find a TeronCX + CPU for about $50 or less.  Somehow I get the hint that your entire post is nothing but malakie-es!  Ask AmiGR what that means!

  - Mike

[Glaucus]

it will find it's way onto the internet...and get pirated by those who bought much cheaper TeronCX's direct from the maker MIA.
They want it because it's cheaper.

Exactly how much cheaper?  And does that include the CPU?  And where can I find a dealer to place an order?  What's MIA's web site???

  - Mike

[Glaucus]

Amiga.inc dosent design it...market it... make an OS for it...all they do is restrict it... It's as much an Amiga as my P4 system is an Amiga...if 'anything' with AOS on it can be badged an Amiga...

I think the root of the problem is that some people only see the technical side.  But that's not how the general public sees it.  Regardless of what you might think of marketing schemes, they play an important role.  As it is, only Amiga Inc can say what is an Amiga and what is not, and it is totally up to their disgretion.  If they pick a rock off the ground and say that's an Amiga, well it's an Amiga.  They and only they have that power.

"Amiga" is and always has been just a name.  Commodore used it to name their new multimedia computer back in '85.  Amiga is not mystical or magical, it did not descend from the heavens nor was it handed out by the lady of the lake.

To argue that the "new" Amiga is not an Amiga is pretty stupid.  It's like arguing that the new Porsche 911 isn't really a 911 because you liked the older models better.  Or that the new Nissan 350Z isn't really a Z because the older 300ZX was better, or the not yet released 2004 Toyota Supra won't be a real Supra because it's not like the past Supras.  All these companies own the name and can re-use that name on new cars that almost have almost no resemblence to the original product.  You can love it or hate it, but you can't dispute what it is.

Now, back to the computer market....  I think Amiga Inc is doing a good thing here.  The PC market is a bit different as you have a wide selection of motherboards (AUS, Gigabyte, MSI, Abit, Soyo, etc...) and CPUs (Durons, Thunbderbirds, athlons, athlonXP's, P3's, P4's, Xeon's, celerons, etc...) and you can walk into any computer retail shop and buy the parts OR have them design and build one for you.  Not quite so for the PPC market.  Fact is, I never even knew they sold PPC motherboards outside the iMac market.  It's a market that I'm completely out of touch with, so I would be very confused about how to even start building a PPC machine for AOS4.  Amiga has helped me here by labeling a particular hardware platform as the AmigaOne and made it the official platform.  For me, as a clueless customer in this new market it makes my life a lot easier.  It might not be the best choice but to me it seems like the safest choice.  Amiga Inc may have made mistakes in the past, but as far as I'm concerned this is not one of them.  This is a very smart move on their part.

  - Mike

[Glaucus]

also it Glaucus it isnt just their Boards/etc they inflate...look at all the other products... all they need to do is sell you an IDE cable and they make 90% Profiet on it..sellint an IDE cable for 2$ is like 180% profiet when you get it for 20 cents..... I used to work for a retailer who bought bulk and believe me eyetechs prices are wacko even for the UK import costs and such... their nutzo

Well, if you can get me an IDE cable for $2 then send me a crateful. I just picked up an IDE cable for about CDN$13 + taxes, that would be close USD$9 (or $10 after taxes).  I found this listing on their website:
CAB40-2W-20C 40 way IDE cable 2 connector 20cm 4.25

I assume that's in either British Pounds or Euros.  Eitherway, the price is on par with what I'd get it here locally.

Using cables as a comparison is rather lame as well.  Everyone knows they're getting ripped off when they buy cables.  Trust me, I know, I'm big into home audio and home theater as well and it's easy to find a foot long interconnect retailing for over $200.

I took a glance over their prices and I didn't see any that were way out of line.  I only noticed that they seem to deal with older equipment.  No DDR ram for example, just PC100/133 ram.  Personally, I think you guys just have an axe to grind with EyeTech.  If their prices really are out of line for something like an IDE cable then it will eventually auto-correct as their IDE cable sales will dry up.  That's the beauty of capitalism!  I trust that the consumer, at the time of purchase will shop around for the best deal and will make the best choice they can.  If EyeTech isn't the best choice then EyeTech will feel the pain without your help.

  - Mike
 

[Glaucus]

so if gigabyte buys Asus boards and calls them mambo rockets then their mambo rockets not Asus boards?

That too happens in the car market all the time.  Mitsubishi for example sold Eclipse parts to Chrysler that then built the Eagle Talon.  The Talon was eventually discontinued in the US but remained here in Canada since Mitsubishi does not deal in Canada (although I hear they are re-entering the market real soon, if not already).  So, when someone here in Canada bought a Talon, they were technically really buying an Eclipse even though Mits doesn't operate within Canada.  But Talon owners don't consider themselves to be Eclipse owners, if in fact they even know about the connection.

The Mits 3000GT and the Dodge Stealth were in the same situation.  And Ford owns Jaguar, but I doubt too many Jag owners would admit to driving a Ford lately.

Anyway, back to the argument at hand...  My argument in my previous post (or perhaps two posts ago) about how selecting and labelling an official platform makes good marketing sense still stands and wasn't really addressed.

  - Mike

[Glaucus]

They could do the same thing LUNIX does, have minimum specs that would allow anyone to build a system.

Yeah, but:
1) Linux isn't marketted so to do the same as linux would be to do nothing

2) Linux is for geeks.  Not only do ya have to build your PC but your kernal as well.  Nothing turned me off from linux more then installing it on my PC.  After tracking down a linux driver for my NIC all I was able to come up with was a .c file.  That's when I decided to free that partition up for something more useful like WinXP.  Linux is great if you're into wasting many hours a day in front of your PC configuring, tweaking and recompiling the kernal.  No thanks!  The only thing to learn from linux is it's mistakes!

3) Building on point 2 above, Linux has yet to really penetrate the home market and it's games market has evaporated.  Why?  Perhaps because there is no LinuxOne!  If they could slap together some hardware and OS and sell it as a package linux  have a far better chance in the home market.  As it stands the chance that joe six pack will build himself a linux box is atronomically remote.  The idea is to make not only the AmigaOS user friendly but the buying process user friendly as well.  Unfortunately linux sucks in both departments.

  - Mike