IndivisionECS will have dual video output!

[quarkx]

I wonder how the A1000 will handle it with only WB1.3 and Min. (512K Ram)

[quarkx]

Ouch! $140 each, I guess I will just have to get one, not the 6 I was planning on.

[quarkx]

lol @ ROFL.   I am with you on this one quarkx.
Way too expensive.  I don't give a flying sh** about outputting on 2 LCDs.   Should have designed a cheap solution without all the extra fuss...  one screen lower price.   I have the Amber 2320 and it does a fine job for me for 8 years now.   This is a perfectly good example of an Engineer doing overkill of a design, inflating the price in the process.  Most people won't need this if they have no Graphics card.  Note to all: i'm not bashing Jens as engineer (nice design).  Just saying he should have made it such it could be cheaper.  Don't add all the extra things, keep the price more affordable.
How much cheaper?  My take is $80-100 range ($99 would be ideal).
I may be hesitant to spend $140.

Yes, my thoughts exactly, if I was buying 1 for 1 Amiga (like the AGA for the 1200 and 4000) this price would be ok, but most people  would buy 2  or more if they are like me and have a slew of classic Amigas. I would LOVE to get 2 on my A1000, 1 each for my 500's and 1 for my 600, but even at half the price, the investment is not worth the WOW factor of running dual monitors.
This is hardware for the Classes not the masses at this price. These are the prices I would expect the pirates on Ebay to be charging (in fact, you can find NOS flicker fixers for CHEAPER there).

[quarkx]

Well, they're not cheap enough to wipe your ass on or anything, but they're in-line with what scandoublers have been costing, and yet they're more modern and provide better/more functionality.

This isn't the "one Indivision in every Amiga" game.  You've gotta want it.

I call EXTREAME BS  (B F***in S)on that one. I am working closely now with a hardware manufacture and I have a pretty good idea of the cost of the components. Lets just say Jens is making a very good profit and AmigaKit is making a good profit. I wouldn't be suprised at all if the cost has been doubled and doubled again at retail.

Hey, I am not against making profit, but they will sell alot more if they dropped the price to below $100. Again, it boils down to simple economics. but here we go again with floging a dead horse. This is the same argument as the SAM, Minimig, etc- It comes down to price gouging. The sellers are shooting themselves in the head with the prices. When they could be making so much more profit in volume sales.
Like I said before I would rather make a $10/unit profit on 1000 units than a $50 /unit profit and only sell 30 units.
You can not argue with the math (but of course the meatheads will try).

[quarkx]

X2, Jens is never going to get rich from selling this stuff...he does it because he can.  If you don't want to pay the $$$ for new Amiga HW, don't.

Hey, I never said Jens was going to get rich or anything (By the way I did say you can get scan doublers for the ame price off ebay) My Point is the $140 price point is way too expensive for people to buy 2 or or more for the dual screen mode. My second point is that SIMPLE ECONIMICS and MATH justifies lowering the profit margin to sell more units and make more profit. You can't argue with the facts, but everyone is these days. It looks like we have a lot of so called "experts" on both hardware and economics. I don't claim to be either, but I can do simple math.

[quarkx]

No way in hell are retailers like AmigaKit (and Red's Retro) are doubling price. I'm sorry, but that is a terribly naive remark.

I was just quoting economic books, I am sorry if that came across in any way offensive. It also is mentioned in "on the Edge" as the "typical" economic model.

[quarkx]

The funny thing is that those who scream loudest are the ones disqualifying themselves. I was pointed to the amigalounge blog and nearly laughed my a** off scrolling all the way down: First, he's complaining about pricing, wants to make his own Amiga designs (yeah, right, we've seen iWin before). Then he'd sell Indivision ECS at 69 USD in "thousands". Sure, a market that's good for a few hundred will take a few thousand extra units if it's only cheap enough. Didn't know that rule yet, maybe that's what I made wrong the past 15 years?

However, his random photos truly make up for all the fuzz that this person is babbeling. He's great at putting out numbers without background. He's arguing, and it even looks right if you don't ask any questions (such as "does the developer need to eat?"). He argues and argues, and then places this "random photo" in his blog:

http://www.amigalounge.com/uploaded_images/argue091204ek6-779239.jpg

Thanks buddy, you've made my day :-)

Jens

Hey, let me just point out, that I am not Arguing and arguing. I have 2 blogs on the subject and thats it. And One is just stating all the flack i am getting over this. I have never in my blogs mentioned prices before and have even justifed in past threads the price of the Indivision 1200/4000 boards (for they are "one of" boards meaning people will only buy one of), and I even mention that we all apreciate the fine work you are doing, and an it even has an appology to Amigakit for blaming them on the price.but It is my Opinion that the ECS is over priced. Period.
Red's seem to have a much better price on it than Amigakit and I will probably be ordering one from him. NOT 6, like I had originaly wanted (and planned on buying), but just one, and that was before we found out it could do dual monitors (heck, when I found that out, I was planning on . So the price point lost 5 (or more) sales.
This will be the last comment I post on the matter here, because, obviously I can't and will not EVER EVER EVER get my point across, and nobody sees my point of view.

[quarkx]

Truth is, it *wins* one sale, as you're pointing out. My bills are paid by sales, not imaginary figures. You claim that I'd be making $10 on every unit if I sold it at $69? OK, deduct taxes, deduct dealer margin, deduct Oliver's salary and - oh, nothing left to deduct. Pardon, I forgot, you know that chip dealer who pays in cash if you take FPGAs off of him. Care to share the phone number?

Laser stencils are for free. Machine programming is done by dwarfs during the night when everybody else is sleeping. Eating is overrated. Banks don't want money, they already got plenty. Electricity comes out of the wallplug. Quality control is not necessary, they'll work, and if they don't, the warranty will fix it (which is for free as well). Boxes and manuals also print themselves. Think of it: Paper is made from trees, so it's free - trees don't charge us for growing. Software updates are also free. Why? Look at icomp's website, they're all free for download. You can download as many times as you want, and they don't charge extra!

Man, is Canada really that far out?

Jens

I was using those number as an example, but your development costs should be a whole separate cost then your production costs. I agree that all costs are covered by the profit margin,and yes, you have to eat etc. I look at long term growth, not can I get my money back tomorow. You say the numbers are small on the Amiga market, but how many people are out there not buying any new product because the prices are too high? (for example, how many people would by a SAM if the price was under $200?)
Yes, I am an idiot, yes, I "have no clue" bla bla bla.
this is getting us no where, lets please put a stop to the bickering. the simple fact is that its a done deal, no mater what I say, the price is the price period. You are setting a price and I have no say in that. Until I make a competing product, and set the price point where I want it, then I will just STF up.

[quarkx]

@Quarkx

We sell the Indivision ECS for $125.61 US Dollars

We are selling the Indivision ECS for the same price as other resellers - so I dont understand why you think we are more expensive?  Unless you are comparing US Dollars incorrectly with Canadian Dollars.

I was quoting your Canadian price $138.32 (which I did NOt realise unitil not that it was Canadian Dollar) and Red's quote was 125, which was in US I am sorry, they Both come out to $138-$139 or so Canadian. So I apologize if it looked like Red was way cheaper.

[quarkx]

I would have to disagree with you and point to how many posts you have made in just this thread as evidence.



Another stupid remark that is incorrect.  You really should have quit this thread a long time ago, or just admitted that you were wrong and then dropped all of you idiocy.  Your statements are incorrect and your logic is faulty.



I wish it had been your last comment on this matter, but you just keep going on and on without making any sense and then complain that you are not understood.  We understand you perfectly, but you are just plain wrong and don't want to admit it.  Grow UP!

Maybe you better go back and re-read the posts.
for your first quote , jen was talking about my blog, not this thread.
second, I did admit and apologise that The currency was listed in Canadain Dollars on Amigakits website and in US dolars on Red's making Red's A buck MORE than Amigakits.
so instead of jumping on your high horse, because YOU think I am wrong, read the posts properly.
but enough already. I am getting sick of this childish behavour. YOU need to grow up, but i guess you just want to troll instead.

If you want me to stop posting, then You quit making blatently false and missinformed acusations in which I need to clarify the comment, and defend myself.