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Author Topic: Ideas: The new Amiga. Yes, it's inevitable!  (Read 14244 times)

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Offline mdwh2

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Re: Ideas: The new Amiga. Yes, it's inevitable!
« on: September 04, 2008, 11:07:57 PM »
(Reposting from the other thread, in case you missed it...)

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Beast96GT wrote:
The Amiga graphics chips could optimize for Quaternions which are much better than matrices (especially for rotations).  
In what sense "optimised", that isn't already done on modern hardware? Presumably if there was some obvious way to speed things up here, NVIDIA etc would already be doing it.

Quaternions are only a representation of 3x3 matrices for rotations, they still need to be converted to 4x4 matrices to represent general transformations anyway.

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Zekaric wrote:
Quaternions is just another tool in the box, it won't replace euclidean transformations; so they aren't exactly necessary IMO.
Well, if they're needed, they're written in software anyway, so they shouldn't have anything to do with hardware choices. Quaternions are better than Euler rotations as they avoid "grimbal lock", but use less variables than a 3x3 matrix (4 verus 9). It's also easier to do some algorithms using quaternions rather than rotation matrices (e.g., spherical linear interpolation).
 

Offline mdwh2

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Re: Ideas: The new Amiga. Yes, it's inevitable!
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2008, 11:38:44 AM »
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Beast96GT wrote:
To avoid gimbal lock and get smoother rotations, most game engines convert a rotation matrix to a quaternion, rotate it, then convert it back to a matrix.  You can't tell me this process can't be optimized, especially on the GPU.  
Yes, this is spherical linear interpolation, and yes, I suspect that between the billions spent by the likes of Intel and NVIDIA, and the large numbers of people working in 3D graphics, people have already optimised it as much as is worth doing.

The first rule of performance is that it's only worth improving the bottlenecks. Whilst SLERP may at first look long winded, it's nothing for modern CPUs, and typically only has to be done once per animated object per frame - I imagine drawing thousands of polygons with complex pixel shaders is far more likely to eat up the time.

Engines don't necessarily need to convert both ways - e.g., they can store rotations as quaternions, so you can do SLERP straight off, and then convert that, along with the position, to a 4x4 transformation matrix to apply. Converting a quaternion to a matrix is a quick process, just involving a few multiplications.

Moreover, this sort of thing already can be optimised. CPUs have all these extra instructions (e.g., SSE) for multplying arrays of numbers together which can be used here. Similarly on the GPU. Saying they could optimise this process is like saying they could optimise the dot product or cross product or matrix multiplication - such things already are optimised.

Also I don't see how this is related to any new Amiga hardware idea? You're not going to convince NVIDIA etc to implement some new idea, and if you're suggesting that a company develops their own "Amiga" custom chipset just to implement this one idea, it would likely as a whole fall way behind other chipsets due to a lack of investment and experience.
 

Offline mdwh2

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Re: Ideas: The new Amiga. Yes, it's inevitable!
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2008, 10:58:25 PM »
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WotTheFook wrote:
Take off the rose-coloured shades and admit that there isn't ever going to be a new Amiga like it was back in the 90s, unless you are wearing ruby slippers...  :lol:
Well I hope not - a machine of the 90s would be way out of date ;) The problem in my opinion is that those with the rights to the Amiga have been releasing machines too much like machines of the 90s, rather than cutting forward to using modern technology, like Apple have had to do.