HDMI output for A1200?

[Eriond]

Hi Carl!

Glad to hear from You again. So, you too realized that the Xbox projct was hopeless  :roll:
Well, I've given up on that...

As for your ideas to apply the SiI9132 on the Amiga; its rather interesting! I'm still waiting for the real datasheet from Silicon Image, so maybe that alternative you found (Analogix?) could be something?

@sigmason: I have not been able to find a good block diagram over the A1200, so I can't really argue with you there, but from xperience with other systems (PC, Xbox and the like) the only thing you should find after the graphics controller is a video encoder of some sort. I don't beleive that the graphic bus is fed "back" into the amiga custom chips (like the copper).

Still, to pull this off, I need to do a lot more investigation and then there is this thing about expanding Amigas... Does anyone have a link to a working PLCC socket that would clip over Lisa (and not fall off as soon as anyone sneezes)? Would be greately appreciated.
So would a timing diagram of Lisas output be. The one in the specs was rather simplified. I would like to see a dump from an logic analyzer containing all 24 RGB lines, the C28OUT and BLANK.

But the more I think about it, the nicer it seems...
Hope we can avoid frame buffering, that would keep the design simple.

Damn you, Carl! Now you got me hooked on another mad project of yours :-P

Cheers,
Eriond

[Eriond]

Ok, interesting comments. Thanks to all.

I've also requested datasheet for the Analogix ANX8560 (although its "just" a SiI9134 clone). Until the hard facts arrive, I can only do qualified guesswork...

As AlexH wrote, you cannot replace Lisa :-o . Lisa is the chip that actually produces the pixels! My (and Carls) approach is to replace the AnalogDevices ADV101 DAC with a more up-to-date solution, a HDMI transmitter.

What I have read so far in the product briefs, is that a HDMI TX takes a raw garphics bus and repacks it to fit the HDMI standard. Looking at the block diagram of such a chip, there is a block called "Video data capture logic", which to my opinion should sample pixels.

The really interesting question here is at what rate does this sampling occur? Most HDMI chips claim speeds of up to 165MHz, but only a handful specify the lower limit which I guess is more interesting for us who want to connect it to a old/slow graphic chip, like the Lisa. Silicon image say their version begins at 25MHz which would be slow enough.

However, the question is still; is it the graphic chip that dictates when each sample occur or is it the internal clock of the HDMI TX? The difference is very important, because we want to have a resulting image data stream that is compatible with todays TVs and monitors. An aqward propriatary Amiga resolution won't do us any good, even if it is re-packed in a HDMI stream.

Hopefully it works something like this (and now I'm guessing): we tell the HDMI TX which resolution we want (480, 720 or 1080) and it will sample the pixels neccessary to acheive our requested output. But that is probably being optimistic :-(

If the number of scan lines sent from Lisa would fit into a HDMI standard resolution, then this would probably work. I'll have to do some forum searching to see if there are some specs somwhere :inquisitive:

Otherwise, I will have to go for a full-blown framebuffer, which means and advanced FPGA solution. In such case I could probably get hold of a HDMI TX as IP, and do everything in one chip... oh well, it looks I have to do like AlexH suggested and send a question off to Mr. Jens Schoenfeld. :bow:

The quest continues... 8-)

[Eriond]

Wow  :-o Now that's a post...

From reading all of your most intelligent and interesting posts I go from despair to hope and back again! As Carl pointed out, I only had a brief encounter with programmable logic long ago. (it was actually while I had to do a GAL for the Amiga bus Autoconfig feature) That field of electronics has advanced immensly over the years, and nowadays you can do real magic with theese chips. The Minimig is an excellent example!

But, before I venture on a half-year long learning curve, I'd say it could be worth a try with the existing HDMI TX devices. Although I can't clearly see a framebuffer/RAM arrangement from the simple block schematic on the product brief, there are statements like:

14-bit internal video processing and 14-bit to 12/10/8-bit dither

and the chip must contain some sort of intelligence, otherwise it wouldn't be neccessary to boast

Integrated HDMI 1.3 TMDS core running at 225MHz

I think I'll fire up Eagle and do a prototype board.:-D
But then I still have a question that Stedy addressed briefly, and that is how to make a simple I2C bus. I'm pretty familiar with PICs, but what would be the best place to attach it? The clockport seems rather straightforward, but I suppose it is already occupied by other expansions...

My idea is to clip on the ADV101 to get all neccessary video signals (RGB bus, H & V-sync) but I still need to get to Lisas 28M buffered clock. So, it seems I would need to clip over both chips...
And when I already have Lisa, then I also have the main processor bus. So I would need to do some address decoding and hook up my PIC there. Does that sound resonable?

/Eriond

[Eriond]

Hi all!

Well Carl, Analogix have been so kind to forward me the datasheet for the ANX8770 and 8775 which are two HDMI Receivers! I will (in a gentle manner) point out that there must have been a mistake, and ask them to give it another try.

Meanwhile I'm busy designing the proto-board and have gone hunting for a suitable PLCC socket that would clip on our chips of interest. Yes, I will take the PIC idea into consideration. I'll get back to you on that...

/Eriond

PS. What do you think about putting the modded A1200 into this case:

[Eriond]

Status update:

I have now received the official data sheet for the ANX8560 HDMI TX. Quite a beast! 50 pages describin pretty much all aspects of what we already know (pins, power, etc) but when it comes to the video modes it can handle they state:

4.2 Video Input Data
The ANX8560 accepts multiple input video formats and can convert them into different output formats before
presenting them to the HDMI interface. The Video Data interface is programmed by setting the Video Control
Registers.

Cool, right? Unfortunately there are no descriptions of those "control registers", nor are there any lists, tables or examples of the "different output formats". The end of the document says:

This document contains proprietary information of Analogix Semiconductor, Inc. or under license from third parties. No part of this document may be reproduced in any form or by any means or transferred to any third party without the prior written consent of Analogix Semiconductor, Inc.

So I cant forward it to you... :-(
You just have to beleive me on this one.

There are quite a few 8-) things mentioned though;
You get full access to the CEC interface; meaning the TV set can forward remote commands to the Amiga and the amiga can access the OSD function of the TV to display arbitrary data. Maybe not the most neccessary feature, but still cool!  :-D

To do all thesee trix and to fully control the HDMI TX, I'll definetly go for a PIC. There are things mentioned in the specs that would be too difficult to handle with plain logic. A local micro would also ensure proper operation at all times, without the need for propriatary driver software. Of course I intend to hook up the PIC to the Amiga bus somehow, so that a driver can access and control all the "cool" features.

Then there is the issue of Audio. Phew!
Due to the complexity of the Paula chip, with all of its DMA stuff going on, and the issue of primairly 8-bit audio on the Amiga, I intend to do one of two things:
a) Try to find a stereo analog-to-SPDIF sampling chip, and feed its output directly to the SPDIF input on the HDMI TX.
b) Abandon audio support, and let people use the standard analouge outputs on the Amiga itself.
A is of course a much cooler approach (the amiga can then be treated as any other modern home entertainment equipment, only requiring one cable to connect) but B is simpler. Maybe I just do like C= and make room for a sampler chip on the board, but leave it "optional"... :lol:

Time to continue designing custom ICs in Eagle. (Another time-consuming task...)

/Eriond

[Eriond]

Thanks for your input, Ian.

The nice thing about this new HDMI TX (or "sources" according to HDMI.org) is that it directly handles the complete HDMI plug. That means it has an on-board I2C master for the DDC bus. It also handles CEC and the Hot-Plug indicator pin.

So all I need to do, is to talk to the device's I2C slave port! Nice and simple.

As for availability, Analogix state that the smallest order quantaty is 600 pcs. They are kind enough to send me a couple of sample chips for just p&p.

I'm intending to do this as an open proof-of-concept design. Hopefully there will be distributors that pick up this device for us ordinary mortals to buy one piece at a time.

DVI 1.0 is natively supported by the ANX8560. In practice this means you just need a HDMI->DVI adapter plug.

[Eriond]

The chips arrived today. And now I have also got the register documentation...there are quite a few!

Code: [Select]

Offset Register Group,I2C Address,Page
0x00 ‐ 0x04 Device ID and Initialization 0x72/76 P. 12
0x05 ‐ 0x0A System Control and Status 0x72/76 P. 13
0x10 ‐ 0x3C Video Control Registers 0x72/76 P. 17
0x40 ‐ 0x4B Interrupt Processing 0x72/76 P. 33
0x50 ‐ 0x72 Audio Control Registers 0x72/76 P. 40
0x80 ‐ 0x8A DDC Control Registers 0x72/76 P. 56
0x90 ‐ System Power Down Register 0x72/76 P. 60
0x96 ‐ 0x99 TMDS Control Registers 0x72/76 P. 63
0xA0 ‐ 0xE4 HDCP Status and Control Registers 0x72/76 P. 66
0xC0 ‐ 0xCF Configuration I2C Registers • 0x7A/7E P. 76
0xD0 ‐ 0xD4 CEC Control Registers • 0x7A/7E P. 80
0x00 ‐ 0xBE InfoFrame and Control Packet Registers 0x7A/7E P. 83
91 pages all in all. But right now, its bedtime! I'll keep you posted.

/Eriond