New AGA SDL Development

[wawrzon]

as this sdl lib is particularly meant for genuine hardware (why port sdl programs to aga to run them under winuae that provides rtg by default?) leaving out sound is mostly neccessary as it is anyway too heavy a load for hardware in question.

[wawrzon]

also although more complicated one could consider compiling this (optionally) as amiga shared lib. this would allow to make ports ready and update the library later, without the necessity of recompiling the ports. how about that?

[wawrzon]

That is for people who own the real Amiga and does not desire WinUAE! You know not everyone and I mean not EVERYONE likes using emulators. I know we had this discussion earlier about how good WinUAE is and how you cannot tell the difference between it and the real thing and so on and so on...STILL for people who desire the obsession and need to use the real thing...people like me who prefer the real hardware over emulation...even if it means cluttering my desk with additional hardware and so on.

i wasnt bashing genuine amiga hardware. i use and prefer it too to uae. i was just making a technical hint, since i have done few sdl ports to run on real amigas.

[wawrzon]

Sorry but I'm waaaay to lazy to do that

i see, same as bernd was. seems sdl has something to do with lazy coding;)

perhaps you can put your project up on a repository once n advanced stage. others might implement and improve it where you lack motivation. but first things first of course.

[wawrzon]

Speaking of Bernd, has anyone seen him about recently? He's not logged into here since last December.

i think he has lost patience even with aros. ocassionally he still reacts if i point him to something or need some help, but i think he moved on realizing this all leads to nothing.

[wawrzon]

just when a person gets mentioned... bernd has just requested me to test netsurf aga or real hardware. so not all is lost it seems..

[wawrzon]

opening this site on my 060-50 system with netsurf-aga takes more than thirty seconds. the browser has wrong colors currently. it is laggy but not that much more laggy than rtg version. with some patience no proiblem to navigate. now testing if posting works. cheers.

[wawrzon]

@crumb
this netsurf aga uses sdl library from novacoder. none has volunteered to rewrite chris netsurf for amiga. im sorry.

[wawrzon]

@crumb
there are threads over threads on this subject. almost none volunteered. nova looked at it but failed. i cant do it. artur cant do it. if someone just did it instead of giving valuable advises we would have it already. bernd suggested to adapt itix mui frontend, but itix will not do it either. so what for all that talk? we get what we can and be content with it.

[wawrzon]

so.. since none is volunteering can we come back on topic here, which is aga sdl.

[wawrzon]

so far i can tell aros brings posix compataiblility as well as amiga compatibility. you can prepare stuff to compile against aros and you will almost automatically get 68k stuff for amiga stable as soon as aros v1 is final. or even sooner, but unstable. staf is working on this. so no need to introduce another c library tp amiga-m68k.

what concerns the objections voiced here by crumb and also by chris against netsurf sdl frontend. almost every time someone does anything on 68k, which is maybe not so smart (admittedly), voices from mos or os4 camp try to tell us how wrong it is and that we should do that another way, compatible with theirs. a good example is bernds ixemul library debate. i acknowledge the authority of experienced coders like piru, but on the other hand we are given what we can get. if piru had backported mos ixemul improvements to 68k there wouldnt be the necessity for bernd to hack it. if chris or crumb, or itix would backport netsurf frontend to 68k, arti could put his sdl frontend away (perhaps). quarreling about that takes probably the amount of time it would take to implement it.

im sorry i have no knowledge of programming and no capacity to learn it adequately. im an artist and my (amiga) time is limited too. im doing what i can. maybe im wrong, but except of all the noobs, 50% of people here work and are educated in it branche. why (for heavens sake) do i try to do that all, and those who can, dont even move a finger but complain?

[wawrzon]

Sharing code with current OS4 port would mean much less work maintaining the OS3.x port.

Perhaps instead of breaking compatibility he should have renamed his version newixemul.library or something like that.

if someone did a proper amiga shared library port then people using E/powerD/Blitz/SASC/StormC/vbcc/GCC+libnix/GCC+clib2/GCC2.95+ixemul/GCC3+ixemul v60... all them could use the same and we wouldn't need n times the same static code.

if.. if.. if...... believe me, id prefer the same like you but neither from os4 nor mos camp there is enough good will to synchronize. aros and genuine amiga people (68k) would come along but usually lack skills. and when you complain about bernd, id prefer he renamed the lib, but since he didnt everybody is free to resign on soft compiled against it and stay with 48.x (already a trouble). i myself always tried to go for libnix first, whatever...

In order to avoid frustration working in the Reaction port will be better because when the SDL*AGA*port is ready you can be sure a lot of people will moan about speed (and they won't offer you reaction tools to speed up the gui part, they will just moan). SDL port is ok as an internal test "ok, everything compiles and network works, now let's do the Reaction/MUI*gui".

i trust you sdl is slow but have not seen any proof. depends on implementation i guess.

PS:*I think you did a picture of a pegasos with a text "Pegasos ready for destruction" but don't know where I could find it (at good quality, I just saw a few Ambient backdrops).

its not mine. i did no graphics for morphos. im not a good graphician, sorry. being an artist is usually a different kind of deal even if basics may be the same.

[wawrzon]

I have faith that Novacoder's SDL won't be slow.  That's not the problem here - the issue is that NetSurf's Framebuffer GUI is not designed for operating systems with a proper GUI toolkit.

you mean like the framebuffer gets wholly rerendered when something within the content chenges? like an animation or text input into a form? this is of course an angument, but then as you see there is none who can implement your frontend on 68k.

[wawrzon]

Perhaps you have a distorted view because Chris is trying to help and he even performed changes in his code to make it easier to adapt to OS3.x. Itix and Fab are always helpful, Fab for example always helps porting his apps to other OSes like AROS and OS4.x. Put some lines of classic amiga code and Piru will always help to optimize and iron out bugs. I don't think Kas1e doesn't have good will helping OS3.x users. But keep in mind they already did a choice and you can't force them to compile code for OS3.x specially if they no longer use these systems.

no, im quite calm about it actually. i have had good contact to most of the people you mentioned and while they have not much interest in original amiga left, they were always open, helpful and collegial, i value them and the attitude, including kas1e. if only the whole scene were like them. i am also not demanding anything from them or you for that matter. their and your comments may be a guidance, but all of us must comprehend the reality of the situation. and this is that for instance with all the help of the above people i hardly can code a line, even if i helped up and help in a number of projects. lately i tried to compile odyssey for aros 68k with the help of deadwood, jason and fab. and what came out of it? nothing!

Until Jason and Toni Willen there were quite a lot of users who didn't care much about 68k nor compatibility with it.

its still like this, but it is wrong, aros could be a great repleacment for the original os but it still needs improvements.

Just open SDL OWB on OS4 and compare it to OWB-MUI. Or just open Netsurf SDL on a real 060+RTG miggy. Download my tool and play with it and you'll see how easy is creating a Reaction GUI. To compile stuff you'll probably have to write:
gcc mygui.c events.c -o mygui.exe -noixemul

may look at it but pretty much know that i cant handle it. its not only the gui. netsurf needs also to have chris' plotter to work on 68k.

[wawrzon]

@adrian82

very good attitude. hpw about helping out to polish up aros68k? aros is open source by definition and platform independant. with aros you can have both amiga backwards binary compatibility and certain posix compatibility afaik so ports  from linux world can be easier without the need of ixemul libs.