How about creating a Open AMIGA Consortium?

[AeroMan]

Whateaver happens I'm in !!!!!
I believe we need to define directions of where to go from where we are, and I would like to be part of the design of an Amiga compatible.

So here goes some suggestions:

  - We could start some threads to brainstorm specific features of the machine, like the one about SuperPaula. Let's do it for video, CPU, Audio, I/O, etc...

  - We could compile the results in a set of documents and let them public. Keep some threads to improve then and freeze them after some time.

  - Start some development. Let's assign some tasks and have some wiring and programming :-)

  - Try some tests with Kick 3.1, and keep searching for AROS kickstart.

  - Leave space to use off the shelf components. Why can't we have custom chips and use commom parts at the same time? (I have some Ideas about it)

  - Glue everything togheter and create a new Amiga. Even if it can't be named Amiga due to legal issues...


Personal opinion:

   I don't think we should aim at a specific market like desktops or game consoles. If we define a nice spec, it could cover from a machine as small as a PDA or cell phone up to one as big as a high performance computer cluster.
   I seems to be just a matter of planning

[AeroMan]

1)We don't need real ROMs. We need a software starting point, and KS3.1 is a good one. Another good choice is Linux stuff, but this way we would be just another distro... (better get a PC and install your favourit one)

2)Don't paint that as a monster... It is easier to provide a path from the scratch than reverse engineer two complex parts (Mac/OS4). To be scalable you have to specify your base and top model. For example, want a base ? This looks good:

http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC512X&nodeId=0162468rH3DgbNGrmC22FA&tid=t32hb

Want a top ? Connect some of these through ethernet:

http://www.pasemi.com/processors/pwr1682M.html

Just think about what they have in common and how we could support then.


3)The base stuff needs to be in FPGA for compatibility with AGA. Off the shelf components are better supported in expansion boards. You can use common audio/video boards without having to design complex PCBs and have SuperAGA in FPGA locally.

4) The mobile phone was a small device example I used. It does not mean I would like these specs to support GSM. It means it should support simple devices. Take the PDA if it feels more comfortable, but you can choose anything small. The Freescale chip above would be nice in a PDA, but a G5/Radeon/Realtek combo not, so the base could be: "have a commom processor, drivers for audio and video", instead of "use a Radeon xxx and Realtek yyy". Sounds better ?

I know there are many people in Linux world and even more on MS. There are maybe less than 1% of that amount of people doing AROS and it looks really nice.

If everybody shoots in a different direction our future is as promising as the future of Sinclair users (no offense, I love my Sinclair  :-D).

It is worth a try. The Linux guys started like that. At least, we gonna have some fun !

 

[AeroMan]

So why bother about this discussion ? All the "modern" OSs have all those drivers.

You can buy a cheap PC, install your favorite Linux distro and pick the drivers and apps on the net. Then if something goes wrong (it will...) you just have to spend the entire day typing huge commands in a terminal window. Pretty modern, like my TRS-80.

You can instead install Windows and be graced with the blue screen of death from times to times, find out that some of your software does not like Vista, or just delight yourself trying to find out why your state of the art PC is as slow as my TRS-80. After some time you will find out you need an upgrade.

Or, you can spend a fortune in a Mac. It will be well spent as it is really, really different from a common PC (at least for the OS). Then you can suffer trying to find the Mac version for "that" software you need and pay another fortune for it.

I feel the need for the Amiga ! All the "modern" OSs does not satisfy my expectations for a computer as Workbench did at its time.

We just can't wait for a killer app to be written for a non existent platform. It is like a chicken-egg situation.

Some time ago, one might say the same about Linux. "Who is gonna write a driver for my XXXX video board for Linux ?? Does it have Excel? Word? Doom? At least a decent GUI?". Time proved there were people willing to do it.

We already have an open source system. Why put a rock over AROS and say nobody could never do these things?

The only way to know is trying.

[AeroMan]

Einstein wrote:

Great observed, except you are referring to the UI, I'm talking about the internals. :-(

I believe it is not impossible to improve the internals. Even MS did that with 16 bit Windows up to XP, and you can still run 16 bit software.

KS 3.1 is a starting point, for sure it needs to be improved a lot.
But the key point on the thread topic is, we need to have a definition of the hardware first. I bet on AROS as a way to improve the internals gradually

I run windows xp, and have never encountered a blue screen of death,

I use XP at work and it gives me more blues than my B.B. King CDs... And it freezes from times to times also, needing to reboot (at least I don't have to see the blue screen when this happens).
My home PC still runs 98, and it works better, believe it or not (yes, of course it crashes too...)

I guess we'll have to see, good luck though with the killer app writers swarming around a crashfrienly OS

They do it with Windows. They will survive...  :-D

[AeroMan]

Sig999 wrote:
*shrug* the first step in solving a problem is admitting there is a problem, and theres such a very fine line between advocacy and zealotry.

I'm not saying it is not a problem, neither comparing today's systems with my A1200, but let's face it: you can't use Linux without going to the shell. It is a matter of time.
I used Kurumin, and now moved to Ubuntu, and still have to type stuff. Most Linux enthusiasts I know prefer the shell. I don't know a Linux user that doesn't use it (there should be some).

And you can't say that Windows doesn't eats your computer's performance. It is pretty clear if you compare 98 and XP on the same machine. (yes, I have crashes with both! Surprisingly, more with XP)

Those are problems for solving too. They exist, but most people say "ok, it is the way it is". It is not a matter of zealotry, they aren't close to what I expect from a modern system.
 
I had a Mac some time ago. Unfortunately, not with OS X, and I know there are loads of differences from the old MacOS.
Mac is REALLY nice, but it is expensive, and it is difficult to find software for it. This is why I don't buy a new one

Am I the only one in the world who's not comfortable with those OSs and thinks a modern Amiga could fills my expectations?

[AeroMan]

Sig999 wrote:

All OS's have problems - but I find it funny that you're not pointing out the problems with the ones your using while your trying to find fault with the others.

the old Ami guru's more times that 95 hits the BSOD - but hey.. it's old and we should expect that... right?

I've just did it. I'm using Ubuntu and Win98 at home, XP at work and Workbench 3 for fun. I don't think it is needed to list AmigaOS' problems, everybody is very familiar with all of them.
The Sam's Club down the street sells an IMac for something close to US$2000. That's expensive for me, I can buy a hell of a PC for that amount. I want to give OS X a try, but it seems Apple doesn't wants me to do it. Unless I use a hackintosh...
Apples are expensive here mainly for historical reasons I don't think it is worth to describe here. If you get into a computer shop and ask for Mac software you may find just one shelf if you are lucky. This is the Mac scenario here.

What gets me upset is that everytime somebody comes with the idea of doing an "Open Amiga" or similar, loads of people states that it should be a hobby project only, because all other systems are perfect and there is no place for a new Amiga, or something that fills its gap.

I don't think like that, and if there is an effort to do something, even if it doesn't take off, I would like to help. Otherwise, I will be just quiet.

[AeroMan]

I just loved the new Natami site !