Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86

[HenryCase]

The fact that when previous models of the Sam ceased production amiga resellers still had stocks of the things for months afterwards. Consider that these are limited production run machines.



In pure numbers maybe (though if I'm honest I really doubt even that). But that market is heavily segmented. You're not taking into account that a significant chunk of your "potential market" doesn't give a rats ass about OS4.

Look at the OS4 centric forums on AW.net and Amigans. These people constitute the hardcore of OS4 support and yet collectively they shat a brick when they got wind of the price.



No, it really isn't and you're completely missing the point. Yes, there is some overlap between those who want the classic kit and those who are into the NG gear. But not all. For many people they are buying that old hardware is buying back a bit of their childhood or buying addons for pre-existing classic kit.

OS4 and it's associated hardware might as well be an entirely different platform.






If the X1000 ever breaks even, by which I mean pays for its own development costs. I'll be very surprised.



Yeah except the other retro markets I see operate on a much more realistic models, sure rare original stuff sells at a premium, but "new" hardware is sold at reasonable prices. All you do when you produce a ridiculously expensive piece of kit is limit your market, in a market as small and fractious as it is for OS4, beyond a handful like you, the rest of the market leaves you for dead. See the reaction on AW.net and Amigans for details.



You may not, but it would be a mistake to presume others think like you. You want it, great.



*facepalm*





Yeah the key word in that is "hint".

Here's a clue since you seem to be new here: Hyperion lie.




Not all of us are suffering from a midlife crisis, some of us don't have the time to do so.



If it sells more than 150 units total (assuming it ever ships at all), I'll be genuinely shocked.

And before you jump on this: Consider that Aeon are struggling to even get to the stage where beta boards are being made.



For you. For many others they took one look at the price, one look at what it offered, compared it against the alternatives and said no. It isn't just "utility", it's that there are other, cheaper competitive options in this marketplace that are significantly better value for money.

Look, not everyone thinks like you. I like the X1000 because it's different from a hardware standpoint. You can't tell me I'm wrong, and just because you want a cheap and fast machine to run OS4 doesn't make other X1000 fans wrong either.

[HenryCase]

Not to speak for the Leander, but... those of us who criticize the X1000 are not criticizing your choice. We're criticizing AEon/Hyperions choice to not grow the user base.

Two cents.

What would you recommend they do to increase the user base?

As far as I can see both the low end (Sam 460) and high end (X1000) are covered. Criticism over the price is noted, but the price level is mostly out of Aeon's control. If you don't want to pay that much, buy a Sam. Criticism of the price as the only factor is equivalent to an old school Amigan wondering why they can't buy an A4000 for the price of an A600.

[HenryCase]

@ HenryCase
If you want to grow the user-base, then you have to bring the price down to a level a majority of (potential) users are willing to pay. Just because the Sam is the lower end of the price range does not mean it's the price that a majority will pay for. Bring cost of ownership down to about 300$ and I'm in -- but I suspect I'm on the lowest end. This will grow the user-base considerably. A price range of 800$ to 2000$ will not do it.

How do you propose they bring down the price down to $300 for a new machine? This isn't a console market where the hardware can be sold at a loss, and mass market hardware is cheap because it's produced in bulk. I'm sure you know this already, which is why I'm surprised that the 'make it cheaper' is constantly brought up as a solution, it's obvious why the price is high.

If you have a solution, then I'm sure they'll be all ears. x86 isn't an option because OS4 hasn't been ported to x86 (and if they do make an x86 port, expect them to pass on the cost to the Amiga user, who won't be able to afford it and then it's goodnight Vienna), and old Mac hardware will only get you so far (haven't seen a massive increase in the MorphOS user base yet).

Must... Not... Bite...

So you have got some self control. Keep it up.

[HenryCase]

@ HenryCase:
First off, I stated that 300$ was my price and that I was probably in the lowest echelon. So, let's compromise and bring the price up a little higher. How about 400$? That's a reasonable price, on par with what's available, reflecting the Amiga's reputations as a failed platform. So, with that as our baseline, it's not that hard to fill. Steve at ClusterUK managed it. Yes, I know AROS is free, but at least Steve is funneling funds back to AROS development.

And then, there's models like this:
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=bv1cs3ao&cs=04&dgvcode=ss&c=US&l=EN&dgc=SS&cid=52103&lid=1342491
Or this:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Compaq+-+Presario+Desktop+/+AMD+Athlon%26%23153%3B+II+Processor+/+2GB+Memory+/+500GB+Hard+Drive/1254175.p?skuId=1254175&ky=1whxm51gbOgORrn6M8JOUlLjDtR0yY7Rx&cmp=RMX&id=1218243229976
Or even this:
http://netbookprice.net/price-comparison/acer-aspire-one-532h-2588/

Add 150$ to those models and you still have a pretty reasonably priced (and performing) system. All Hyperion has to do is pick one and support it.

There's a small matter of porting OS4 to x86 before they could support any of those systems you outlined. How long did it take to get from 68k to PPC? Also, consider when that move was made that the market for Amiga was bigger than it is now, potential ROI is even smaller than at the time of the original AInc/Hyperion/Eyetech partnership.

But that's where you're wrong. x86 *IS* an option, it's just not the best option given the hole that Hyperion has dug themselves into. Still, getting out of that hole and digging a better one (more likely to find water) is better than just digging the current dry hole deeper.

What do you propose would cover the cost of moving OS4 to x86? Perhaps a bounty could be set up where we pay the Frieden brothers a living wage for the next few years that it takes to port it. Oh wait, the cost would be astronomical... yet, that's what it would take. OS4 wouldn't be generating much income in the time it took to move to x86, plus you wouldn't be looking at new features, just moving to a cheaper platform. Let's say they both earn $40,000 a year (which is conservative), so x2 for the both of them, $80,000 a year, and let's say it takes 3 years so $80,000 x 3 = $240,000. Now can you seriously imagine the Amiga community generating a bounty of that size when the largest ever Amiga bounty was less than $12,000 (Amizilla)?

Or perhaps, some wealthy outside investor wanted to make it happen. So using the estimate of $240,000, how many new AmigaOS4 owners would it take before the investor saw some financial return? Let's just say that they sold each copy for $100, that's 2400 copies of an OS assuming the cost of distribution was 0 and all the money went to the investor. Sounds reasonable enough, but wait... there's no software for this new OS because all the old OS4 software was written for PPC. Plus, three years have passed and AROS is looking better than ever, is free and open, and supports more hardware.

But, as Kolla has already stated: "I would recommend doing what the MorphOS developers did - that is, release OS4 for old powerpc macs." To which I'll add, I just invested in a used PowerMac (150$), when I invest in MorphOS (150$) then the cost of ownership will be: 300$. Which is more than Hyperion is going to get from me. 2 grand is a whole month's worth of living; I ain't giving it up that easily.

And, as I've already pointed out: "if it must be PPC, then xBox, Wii or PS3." Lessee... Wii is 200$, so we're talking minimum price of ownership: 350$ and, I dunno... through in a keyboard and mouse for an additional 20?

The options are there even if people don't want to hear them.

Moana had potential, it is a shame it wasn't pursued, but even if it was completed you'd still have some Amigans complaining that it was the end of the road. As for consoles, they're closed systems, yes you can hack them but I wouldn't base a commercial OS around exploits that can be closed at any time.