Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Bloatware AmigaOS?  (Read 14266 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline HenryCase

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 800
    • Show all replies
Re: Bloatware AmigaOS?
« on: November 16, 2007, 11:23:41 PM »
Quote
stefcep2 wrote:
Thats an issue related to the fact that the hardware x86 design is dictated by the OS that will run on it, not the other way around.


In what way is an x86 processor limited by the OSs that run on it? Windows could be ported to any processor architecture and still look and feel the same it does on x86, provided the processor was fast enough to run it. Similarly, any OS could be ported to x86.

Quote
Waccoon wrote:
I disagree. Even X86 is pretty efficient if you think about it, because hardware engineers cannot be anywhere near as sloppy as software engineers


One of the main factors that prevents x86 being efficient is the legacy of previous chip designs. One example of x86 legacy is the A20 line gate. See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A20_line
I believe the 64bit chips leave some of this hardware legacy behind.

Going back to the original topic, is AmigaOS bloated? Depends on what you're comparing it to. Compared to Windows XP/Vista and OSX it is certainly not bloated. It is also small compared to most modern Linux distributions. However, compared to an OS like MenuetOS it is large. Take a look:
http://www.menuetos.net/

What we should really be asking is does AmigaOS do what we need it to do? I believe the answer is yes. Most of the functionality of computers should come from apps anyway.
"OS5 is so fast that only Chuck Norris can use it." AeroMan
 

Offline HenryCase

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 800
    • Show all replies
Re: Bloatware AmigaOS?
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2007, 03:20:00 PM »
Quote
stefcep2 said:
Absolutely, an OS is nothing without Apps, but I think we should care when we buy hardware that is 1000 times faster and spacous and only to find we go 50% slower in being able to control those apps just because we 'upgraded" the OS.


I agree that wasting the power of a computer system is foolish, and one of the ways this is done is to use a bloated OS. However, the fact of the matter is a true upgrade will always have to offer new features so that people will upgrade, and if you want these new features to be running alongside the old features you are going to have a greater drain on resources. The real issue is that most OS upgrades are unnecessary.

@Hammer

I would just like to say that I mentioned the A20 line as an example x86 legacy, but I dont know all the details of legacy support for older software. Do you know of any other examples?

Quote
zhulien said:
I think the majority want bloatware and if you look at the typical Linux distro that is exactly what you get."


One of the strengths (and weaknesses) of Linux is the sheer diversity of distros. Most mainstream distros do come with a lot of software ready to install from the disk. I am grateful for this because I find installing Linux software a pain (lack of an .exe type of program container is one major reason Linux isn't ready for widespread acceptance IMHO).

However, the Linux distro ranges from super-bloated (Sabayon for example) to small yet useable (Puppy Linux, DSL, etc...). You also have distros built for speed (ArchLinux, VectorLinux, etc...) and customisation (Gentoo is a good example). Of course the most customisable distro would a LFS (Linux From Scratch), more info here: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/
"OS5 is so fast that only Chuck Norris can use it." AeroMan
 

Offline HenryCase

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 800
    • Show all replies
Re: Bloatware AmigaOS?
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2007, 04:18:04 PM »
Quote

uncharted wrote:
I thought I'd sit back and see what people's opinions where on the matter.  There are a couple of interesting thoughts in here, but it seems that more people either completely missed the point or are still hung up on the same old arguments from 1996.


That's because there was nothing to discuss. Could AmigaOS have become the most bloated OS of all time? Yes. Was the size of the OS limited by the storage options? Yes. Does that answer your original questions?

It's more interesting to debate how AmigaOS compares with more modern OS's, especially considering the role of the OS has stayed constant.
"OS5 is so fast that only Chuck Norris can use it." AeroMan
 

Offline HenryCase

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 800
    • Show all replies
Re: Bloatware AmigaOS?
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2007, 05:13:18 PM »
Quote
DonnyEMU wrote:
You guys should really think about what people have running in the background in their Windows and MacOS machines these days all the time. Services for instance. If you shut these things down, you can't do half as much with the particular OS but even those systems run faster when they are paired down and less is running.


But how many of those services are necessary to keep running all the time? Also, I'm pretty sure that the services don't get used fully, it would make sense to keep the size of them to a minimum (i.e. split them into smaller chunks).
"OS5 is so fast that only Chuck Norris can use it." AeroMan
 

Offline HenryCase

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 800
    • Show all replies
Re: Bloatware AmigaOS?
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2007, 07:29:02 PM »
Quote
uncharted wrote:
I give up.  :-(


Please dont give up. I apologise for the tone of my previous post, it was a little rude.

Quote

Quote

Could AmigaOS have become the most bloated OS of all time? Yes. Was the size of the OS limited by the storage options? Yes. Does that answer your original questions?


No.  Because those were not questions I was asking.  Did you read the original post?


Yes I did read the OP. These were the questions you asked:

1. Is AmigaOS really mean and lean because of its design philosophy or is it more to do with its situation?
2. If you think about it, could it be that AmigaOS is so lean because it was never given the resources by Commodore and has been left to rot ever since?
3. Back in the early 90's AmigaOS was, size-wise, on a par with MacOS. Could it be that had development continued with a decent amount of resources that AmigaOS would be as fully featured and as large as modern OSes?

My answers:
1. The hardware AmigaOS runs on did stop Commodore going too over the top with the design. However, you have to consider the time when AmigaOS was designed (the first version, the rest followed the same template). AmigaOS was certainly more flash than the other OS's released at the same time, it only seems small in comparison with modern OS's.
2. AmigaOS had no need to be bloated, especially considering it wasn't an open platform (all Amiga h/w produced by Commodore at the time), so they could make it compact. I'm a bit worried that you're looking for a bloated OS (that's how I'm interpreting it, apologies if I'm wrong).
3. I already answered this, but yes as long as there was new Amiga h/w produced there is nothing intrinsic in the design of the OS that would prevent AmigaOS becoming bloated. Whether the developers would have chosen to take this route is another matter.

Quote

Quote

It's more interesting to debate how AmigaOS compares with more modern OS's, especially considering the role of the OS has stayed constant.


How is that more interesting?  It's so {bleep}ing tedious reading through the same antiquated arguments over an over again.


You may not have found it interesting, but others might have. Your questions only make sense when you consider the historical context so it is natural to compare what AmigaOS is now with the modern computing world.

Quote

uncharted wrote:
Quote

HenryCase wrote:

That's because there was nothing to discuss.


Really? Perhaps you'd like to explain that further?


My comment was a reaction to your comment: "I thought I'd sit back and see what people's opinions where on the matter. There are a couple of interesting thoughts in here, but it seems that more people either completely missed the point or are still hung up on the same old arguments from 1996."

From that I was quite rightly assuming that you weren't interested in listening to a debate about bloat on AmigaOS vs modern OS'. Hence why I gave you the two answers to the questions we could ask if we weren't going to discuss AmigaOS in comparison with newer/other systems.

Does that help you see my point of view?
"OS5 is so fast that only Chuck Norris can use it." AeroMan
 

Offline HenryCase

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 800
    • Show all replies
Re: Bloatware AmigaOS?
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2007, 11:02:41 PM »
Quote

uncharted wrote:
@HenryCase

Don't mind me, I'm just being a grumpy sod today.


I should be the one apologising uncharted, I was a little out of order with my tone before. Sorry.

Getting (almost) back on topic, how long do you think OS4 (not the version we have now) would have taken to come out if Commodore hadn't stopped producing Amigas?

Here's some release info for key versions of Workbench:
v1.0 - 1985
v2.0 - 1990
v3.0 - 1992
v3.1 - 1994

So I'm thinking v4 would have been around 1995/1996? Of course it wouldn't have been as good as the version we have now. I suppose it would have been launched with the AAA chipset Amigas.
"OS5 is so fast that only Chuck Norris can use it." AeroMan
 

Offline HenryCase

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 800
    • Show all replies
Re: Bloatware AmigaOS?
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2007, 02:31:32 AM »
Quote

downix wrote:
No, '95-'96 would have been post-AAA, Hombre chipset.  AAA was to be 3.0, but CBM put it's development on pause, instead releasing the interim AGA.  When they restarted AAA development, they soon found themselves too far behind the curve, so they began Hombre, slated for release in '95.


Thanks for this info.

Just out of interest, if AAA had been released instead of AGA (i.e. at the same time) how would it have compared, tech specs wise, with IBM-PC compatible and Apple graphics h/w?
"OS5 is so fast that only Chuck Norris can use it." AeroMan