Amiga osX

[MarkTime]

Hi Phoenix

What my fellow amiga.org members MEANT to say, was that running Mac OS X on an AmigaONE is illegal.  It violates the EULA of Mac OS X.

This is not a pirates discussion board.  The short answer is no, the only answer is No.

[MarkTime]

Apple's End User License Agreement specifically prohibits using Mac OS X on non-Apple hardware.

This is the agreement you agreed to when you installed Mac OS X, regardless of what country you live in.

Running unlicensed software is *piracy*  There is no other definition of piracy.

This may surprise some of you, but the vast majority of all software sold is not really a physical product...its a limited license.  

All of you who bought 'Mac OS X' bought nothing but a license to use Mac OS X on your Mac.  That's it.
Not a single one of you ever bought Mac OS X to run on your AmigaONE, because Apple will not sell you such a license and sold none of you such a license.

You are running un-licensed software.  Period.

And, I really don't care for the ridiculous excuses you make for your piracy.  If Wayne wants to turn this into a pirates discussion board...that's up to him.

But, I will tell you this, lets go down the roll call of people who want to support illegal activity.  Go ahead,  jump in this thread with your whole hearted support of piracy.  But later, when Amiga OS 4 is being pirated into oblivion, remember, you have nothing to say about it.

[MarkTime]

What Xeron, Peter Gordon meant to say, was that it's unsupported and illegal.

And, if Peter Gordon supports piracy of Mac OS X, then I'm sure he supports piracy of OS 4, as there is no moral difference in pirating things from one company or another.

[MarkTime]

OK Lando...

you fall into the group of pirates who say 'you won't get caught'

Yep, its true.  Most people won't get caught who steal Mac OS X or Amiga OS 4.  I didn't say you would get caught, I said its illegal.

Now, the other thing...you said 'as long as you bought a copy'

re-read my earlier post, you can only buy a license to use Mac OS X on apple branded hardware.

Since no one here bought a license for Mac OS X on AmigaONE...no one has bought a license to run it on their AmigaONE....period.

Lando, if Apple wanted to write a license that said you can build Mac Clones, they could.  If they wanted to write a license that said you only have a license to use this product if you bought it!  They could.  

The license says you may use it only on Apple Branded hardware.  

It's absurdity for you to suggest apple's intentions...absolutely insane.  The license is a legal document, a very carefully crafted legal document...and that document represents apple's position on the subject...not your absurd speculations.

[MarkTime]

@amigamad,

I'm not surprised to see you in this thread supporting piracy.

The cd-media contains a copy of the code for your convenience in installing on your apple branded hardware.  If you think otherwise, you are wrong.  License agreements are a fundamental part of the software industry even in the UK.

You aren't being sold the cd-rom...you are being sold a limited use license.   Perhaps a concrete thinker has difficulty with this concept, but I'm telling you this is fundamental to the software industry, so look it up.

[MarkTime]

It's not apple's fault because they didn't assume people would break the agreement.

The person who breaks the agreement, guess what...thats their responsibility.

[MarkTime]

@casper

If you don't think you have a valid contract, in the EULA, in your country.....Then you simply don't have a contract at all.  A contract to use the software on an AmigaONE, didn't materialize out of thin air, certainly.

Don't you see, no contract, means no contract!!!!

license agreements are valid in all euorpean countries, these types of arguments 'it's legal in my country' are very hard to counter, because I readily admit, I don't know the laws of every country of the world.  but its by and large BS.

europe and america both have very strong intellectual property laws, and don't allow piracy.

The reason I will be fairly vocal on this subject, is I am looking for practice in making a certain point clear.

Its obvious to me, that many people feel piracy is OK,  and thats life....but many people don't really understand why its wrong, and so its good to sharpen ones skills on this point.

For example, spending $100 to buy a license for using Mac OS X on a single piece of apple branded hardware, allows you to use Mac OS X for whatever you want? nooooo, not really.

 can you buy a 10 person license and use it for 15?  Is that OK?  Can you buy an upgrade license for XP, and use it to make a full install on an OEM machine?

Of course, all these things are wrong...but now...looking at other threads, I see one thing....many of you are not against piracy in any form...you outright support it fully...and the arguments are just misdirection

@Xeron, Peter Gordon...if you are against piracy, you will say it, you can say it at any time.  

I know that you didn't literally mean to say you were against piracy, and I did put those words in your mouth...but anyone can tell from reading it I was facetious, and you've made it more than clear your feelings on the subject.  At no point did you take a stance against piracy...

feel free to do so at any time.

[MarkTime]

Hey Tomas,

Guess what, all western european countries have  a concept of a license agreement and have laws to protect those licenses.

You believe you purchase a CD, and then you invent the license?  Wrong.

You think the license agreement isn't valid, and so you can change it.  You can unilaterally make it a license to run on AmigaONE.  Interesting, and so you can also upgrade your license to be a server license?  Can you also upgrade your license to change the name of it and re-sell it?  Can you upgrade the license from one user to two?

There is no country in the world where you can modify the license to your liking, simply because you don't like the terms of the license.  You have to have an agreement to use someone elses intellectual property.  If you don't want to make an agreement, then you can back away, and not use Mac OS X.  What you cannot do, is force Apple to accept your terms without any discussion or any agreement.  

If you think your country is like that, then you must believe your country has virtually no intellectual property laws at all.

You are wrong.  There is no country in the world that says by purchasing CD media you are then allowed to write your own terms on the software license.  If you think I'm wrong, just post a link to the laws you are citing.

In all european countries, Apple has the ability to enter into contracts and make software licenses.

[MarkTime]

oh yes, I forgot the standard verbage.

If Tomas believes that its OK to re-write the license on Mac OS X in his country, then I assume he will also support the copying of Amiga OS 4 within his country, for use on alternate platforms like pegasos.

Even though Genesi doesn't pay the Amiga license, just as Eyetech doesn't pay apple any license, and both companies, Apple and Eyetech expect to make part of their money from hardware sales....

In other words, that $100 isn't what apple needs to make on OS X, neither is the purchase price of OS 4, what Amiga expects to make...they rely on hardware sales too.  Hardware sales, that under this logic, we are all free to circumvent.

according to Tomas, this mechanism is foolish, since the end user can do an end run around on such agreements, if they simply purchase cd-media.

buy an Amiga ONE and just copy Mac OS X?

Hmmm, if you reasoning is so good, why doesn't someone just buy the cheapest board (pegasos) and copy both Amiga OS 4 and Mac OS X?

or maybe that is what you plan on doing.  Anyway, its still wrong.

[MarkTime]

@Unit21

Your response has the air of legitimacy about it.  Unfortunately most countries do not have such a law...but it is a very good law...that a person could back out of a contract that was not clearly explained to them.  They could cancel the contract, get their money back.  Etc....it doesn't give them the ability to write into the contract new terms, though.  They can't give themselves a license for an AmigaONE, for example.

Now, a backup copy for personal use.  Very few countries have a law like that.  But I can believe a non-EU country would have a law like that.  Unfortunately, trade agreements are very complex, and the U.S. (among others) have been pressuring everyone to adopt IP laws as part of trading agreements....(not uncommon, just as mexico forced many concession from the U.S. to get the NAFTA agreement signed)....

so you find most countries are not really unique in the IP law area....but I kind of like your countries laws...but for those of us who don't live there, and most of the pirates on this board don't live in such a country...for us its illegal.

For you, its only immoral, not illegal.  You still clicked on a box and said 'I agree'...but you don't agree.  Honesty....its hardly ever heard, but its mostly what I need....from youuuuuuu<-singing a stupid Billy Joel song.

I'm kidding, in your country I'd buy the pegasos and copy the Amiga OS 4 and Mac OS X, and build myself a triple boot system....but I don't live there...so sad.

I wonder if Hyperion will weigh in on this and give every permission to make those backup copies of Amiga OS 4 to put on their pegasos.

That would put the whole issue to rest, at least for Amiga OS 4....of course, I don't expect to hear from apple.

[MarkTime]

Wow are you wrong, and totally misrepresenting the laws in the UK.

The UK also has End  User License Agreements on their software packages, very very similar to the USA.

And they state things like "This is a license, not a product"

Making  sure you understand you are buying a limited use license, and the CD is simply media that contains the bits and bites.

I don't expect software pirates to deal in the plain truth.

My position doesn't outlaw emulation at all.  I don't even outlaw running Mac OS X on an AmigaONE.  My position makes it perfectly acceptable for Apple to agree to such a thing...only apple didn't, so its illegal.

Emulation is perfectly acceptable as well, as long as in doing the emulation you didn't steal someone's IP.  Which btw, many emulators are illegal for that reason.

And that was settled long ago.  If you don't believe me, try releasing UAE with Kickstart ROM's included.  You can't, and Amiga, Inc. will shut you down.

Fact is, you can do UAE without violating Amiga's IP...thats legal, and great.  But you want the IP, you pay Cloanto, cause thats the ONLY legal version and you well know it.

The same is true of MOL...its perfectly legal to install MOL, and I never said otherwise, but it won't run Mac OS X without Mac OS X......

Again, though, you aren't even trying to be honest here.

[MarkTime]

@philespin

hey I'm not going to argue with your feelings about things...I'm just talking law, you can feel the law is wrong, (and I agree a lot of laws are wrong).

But, just be clear, you can do all with Amiga OS 4, that you are saying you can do with Mac OS X, right?

One person already said as much, and I respect that position more, even if I don't agree with it.

[MarkTime]

Some of you are getting very confused about making copies and backups of things with breaking a license agreement.

You are not placing Mac OS X on your AmigaONE as a backup copy.

That's just a lame excuse aimed at making this legal through a loophole in just a few countries in the world.

BUt honestly, you didn't buy it as a backup copy, or using it under a personal use exemption if you don't even own a Mac...(those that own real Mac's could do a personal use exemption in those few countries)

But lets discuss things HONESTLY.  HONESTLY, you want to run Mac OS X on your AmigaONE and ignore the licensing agreement.

Is breaking a licensing agreement piracy?  Of course it is, piracy is a laymens term, but that is what the term means.

Piracy is not going into a store and stealing CD's...that is just shoplifting...piracy is breaking the licensing agreement.

I'm not against fair use, not against emulators, not against backup copies.  I'm against piracy and piracy alone.

And when someone makes some software, they have the right to decide if they will sell it to you or not, you cannot demand of them that they license it to you under your terms.  Hogwash.  Not in the UK, thats for sure.

Sure in some countries like India you might find your exception, but you don't live in India so give me a break.

Also on the moon where there is no official government, this sort of thing is completely legal, but just try getting your broadband connection on the moon, I dare ya.

[MarkTime]

@Ponos2d

yes I am exactly like all american's

@Gaidheal,

There is another debate mechanism called complex argument...its where a person brings up so much simultaneious BS, that the responder can't possibly hope to correct everything.

Congratulations, you succeeded with that tactic.

And you got me on another one....just one, but I admit it....there is no law on the moon so nothing is legal.  I was supposed to say its not illegal...dagnabit.

But anyway, most people understood what I meant, its not against the *law* anywhere where there is no law.....but just because something is not against the law, doesn't mean you can say its legal, my bad.

But your basic premise, still falls down and you completely ignore FACTS over and over again.

1. You purchase a license to use Mac OS X on apple branded hardware
2.  See above

There really isn't any point in you following me around from thread to thread acting like some kind of psycho...at least I'm only responding to the thread, what are you doing...are you actually offended by a thread on a BBS?  good grief.

yes, you are dishonest.  

A question was put to you when you installed the Apple Software:  Do you agree to the terms of this license?

You clicked:  Yes

But you don't agree.  The honest answer was: No

[MarkTime]

@Gadboy

I'm not offended, but I do think amiga.org members like to keep things in a specific thread, so the thread on MorphOS on AmigaONE shouldn't be for the piracy discussion.

It's just common etiquette, or can we dismiss with etiquette too because its not illegal where you live?

OK, as for what I'm about, *exactly*...its not a secret at all.  Fact is, I think its ridiculous for the Amiga Fan's to insist you can't copy OS 4, when they copy Mac OS X.

I said from the beginning, if you believe you can copy both....OS 4 and Mac OS X, then at least you are consistent and you have more of my respect.

I'm sorry you don't know the debate mechanism complex argument, and that some of the meanings of the word complex escape you, but I will refer everyone to www.dictionary.com to look up the meaning.  Or a standard debate text to look up another meaning for it.

Again, though you did manage to make one point about my use of the word 'legal' for the most part you are just bantering on, not really making much sense, and  trying to be insulting in kind of an adolescent way.

Eventually I will find this boring....sigh, such a shame.  Usually no one even tries to defend piracy, you are at least giving it your best, to bad your best isn't a little better :-)