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Author Topic: Yup, I just banned him...  (Read 45003 times)

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Offline stefcep2

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Re: Yup, I just banned him...
« on: October 18, 2013, 07:32:00 AM »
I live in Australia and the the absurd arguments Pro-Gun Americans make never ceases to amaze.

"The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"-  Yeah after he has killed about two dozen school kids, well done for "stopping him" from killing three dozen...

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people". Yeah try and kill said two dozen kids with a knife in about 15 minutes...
 

Offline stefcep2

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Re: Yup, I just banned him...
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2013, 07:35:16 AM »
Quote from: save2600;750373
Wrong.

...LAW ABIDING CITIZENS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM!!   !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !


Not per se, but law abiding citizens who also happen to be nutjobs just waiting to explode with easy access to guns and ammo are a big, big problem..
 

Offline stefcep2

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Re: Yup, I just banned him...
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2013, 08:55:17 AM »
Quote from: LoadWB;750300
Honestly, I don't think I included enough information.  I tried to pare it down some to give simple comparison and illustrations.



I know I'm not going to change your mind because its obvious to me that your argument is simply about justifying why you want guns, but..
.

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Where does this term "gun culture" come from?  The question isn't so much about "need."  We all have our basic "needs" which provide our survival.  We also have our individual "wants" or "likes," and one of those happens to be guns.  It could be anything, really.  Guns are hobbies and for most people a responsible way of life.  The fact that so many in our society abuse guns does not in any way give power to have them taken away from those who use them responsibly and for the right reasons.  In the hands of the right people a gun is effective for self-defense.  The "anti-gun culture" plasters the rest of the 10% all over the place for its own purposes, completely ignoring the reality and statistics.


 You can't be serious: using statistics to defend a pro-gun view?  C'mon, how many school kids do you guys need to be slaughtered by some nut job with access to high powered and semi-auto guns and masses of ammo? Compare the stats on such crimes where gun laws are much tougher..

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Again, though, the gun debate completely detracts from the fundamentals.  If one answers the question of, "Why should people not own guns" with, "Because they are dangerous and can kill people," then the same question can easily be applied to anything on the slippery-slope leading to the point of many things suddenly being defined as dangerous and therefore needing prohibition or severe regulation.


No. No it can't.  The big, big difference is the scale, and the speed with which carnage can ensue due to easy access to guns and the few options that you have to stop the killing once its underway.  A driver in a car can kill, but they won't go on a killing spree, repeatedly killing victims with the same car in the same way.  

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Gun ownership is a question of personal property rights.  I own guns because I enjoy the skill involved in shooting, and because I am trained to use them effectively, and by corollary to NOT use them when appropriate.  The thinking is the same as a martial art: the idea is to know when to use it for proper defense, never for offense, and never to gain attention.  Should I have my guns taken from me because my neighbor abuses his, or rather more accurately statistically abuses one he has acquired illegitimately?  Should I have my kitchen knives over eight inches long be taken away because the man down the street used a similar item to kill someone?


Owning a gun is a privilege not a right.  Just like driving a car. Its a controlled piece of property, because if misused it has the potential to inflict great harm on others.

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In terms of personal property, I have a finite time on this Earth.  I spend that time earning a living performing jobs for other people.  Those people compensate me as an exchange for the time I have provided to them from my finite supply.  I then use that compensation to obtain products for myself, some to keep and some to consume.  The property I keep, or wealth I accumulate, becomes a tangible incarnation of the expenditure of my life.  Therefore, my property IS my life, and illegitimately taking away my property is tantamount to taking away my life.


See, in my part of the world rightly or wrongly one American stereotype is of a life dedicated to consumerism.

Saying that your property is your life I find sad.  Sorry but I do.  My son graduated from high school last night.  It was wonderful feeling watching all 6'4'' of him all-suited up walk up and accept his certificate with a firm handshake from his principal, when once his entire hand wrapped across my little finger...accumulating material objects as a life purpose to me sounds like such a waste.