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Author Topic: Minimig PCB run - interest thread  (Read 99096 times)

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Offline arnljot

Re: Where are we today?
« on: August 20, 2007, 06:29:46 PM »
I want one!

Is this the right place to notify? Am I counted now?? :)

I'll have one almost no matter the price ;-)

Just a question, will it be possible to firmware upgrade it later with aga support and things like that? Or is it fixed in stone in terms of what it can emmulate? Thinking that it has a 68000 cpu, and not an emmulated cpu or a 020.

Not a biggy, since we hopefully one day also can by Clone-A... :)
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Offline arnljot

Re: Where are we today?
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2007, 09:47:25 PM »
Though, to my question.

Is there an offical que, and if so - is this it?
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Offline arnljot

Re: Minimig PCB run - interest thread
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2007, 01:16:21 AM »
Quote

alexh wrote:
Probably time to end this now. There will never be a USB host for a 7MHz 68000 with 1.5Mbytes of RAM. The USB software stack is too demanding.


I agree with some notes of reservation: The FPGA has some powers of it's own, and it's two 8MB banks in the 1.1hack, all though it's 1.5Mbytes available to the miggy running.

But I think that we have to focus on two things:
One team should focus on core and firmware (adding more features from UAE and removing bugs). And one team focus on the hardware. DVI/HDMI connectors, push pop memorycard slot. Upgraded CPU? I dunno, I'm not really capable of saying what is, and what is not possible within the minimig hardware design confinements.

Dennis van Weeren states on his homepage:
Quote

Dennis wrote:
Future
What does the future hold for Minimig? I don't know. My hope is that due to the GNU public license people will debug it, expand it and generally make it better. What I would like to see first is the implementation of some form of harddisk support, ethernet support and offcourse a debugged sprite engine :-). It would also be nice if the verilog sources of Minimig would make it into a sourceforge project. I could really need some help there. And the rest? Only time will tell!


I think people with the skills should take his word for it. Structure the firmware code in an open accessible basis as an sourceforge project, and refine the hardware on openciricuts.com. Dennis should head the hardware, and someone else with UAE and lowlevel programming should head the software part.

Right now it seems to me that we (the users) are screaming at them like a pack of hungry dogs for kits, features and stuff, and to me it doesn't seem like there is one unified coordinated effort to help dennis out here to handle the horde of hungry amigians...

So this is what I think could help:
1) Split the project into two under one umbrella.
- Minimig Hardware
- Minimig firmware
2) The umbrella project should (third toplevel project)
- Handle feature request, bug reports and coordinate effort from "third parties"
- Organize bounties:
-- Firmware coding bounties
-- Hardware design bounties
-- Hardware manufacturing bounties (the minimig shop?)

This might all sound very ambitious or negative about all the good and valuable effort a lot of people are doing right now.

But I think that a lof of best practices from the open source project management world could be employed here. It would delay some of the quick wins that we might see in the near future (10 assembled boards ie). But I think that after a while when a project organization is working, that a lot more people could benefit a h*** of a lot more...

Maybe I'm sticking my neck out here now and ramble and rant... But I hope that some people with the right skills read this and agree, and organize the right people.
A posting a day keeps the sanity away...
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Offline arnljot

Re: Minimig PCB run - interest thread
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2007, 02:20:20 AM »
Quote

jkonstan wrote:
[I really like the idea of adding hardware/firmware bounties because it assigns tasks and allows for a way to try to recover some hardware development costs. It can get a little pricey building low volume prototypes.


While I think that reverse auctions, or tenders for building the hardware won't be lucreative for any hardware manufacturer to deal with a minimig opensource project.

I'm sure that many amigians (migians?) have connections or know people in the hardware industry. And a scheme could be set up where say the project agreed with a manufacturer to build say 100 minimigs at an agreed price.

The minimig opensource shop would then collect prepaid order (a counter on the front page!) and dispatch the money and order to the manufacturer when the target number of orders where met.

One problem here is that it would have to be "binding non refundable" orders which is in conflict with most eu/us/asian consumer laws. The reason is to handle the logistics and problems with commitments with the manufacturer and waiting time whilst eager amigians wait for their kits.

But you could say that:
- The vendor get €40 per assembled minimig board (€4000 for 100 boards)
- The project gets €60 euro from each user per board
- €20 "surplus" goes to bounties (posible refunds and paypal disputes) and posting and handling upon delivery from manufacturer to each end user.
- If 100 orders cant be met within 12 months, all order ar null and void and money is refunded (either full €60 or the €40, depends on what the user agreed when preordering, the rest €20 goes to bounties).

These are just ideas for manufacturing bounties. There are a lot of problems and challenges that needs to be sorted out, and eventualities that needs to be planned for. But I'm sure that we (the amiga community) could make something genuinly unique here now.

For the bounties I think it should work this way:
- Requests and bug reports are received by the minimig umbrella project
- The umbrella project sorts and categorises them and defines milestones, targets and plans for each item (hardware and software)
- Each target or "deliverable" if you will becomes a bounty
- Either it's solved for free by the community (preferably) or bounty donators vote and assign money to different targets, and people or parties deliver the target and claim the bounty.

These are just some ideas, and all probably need massive refining before they can become viable.

But I think that someone who knows Dennis should approach him (I dunno how often he reads here), and ask him if he's interessted in supporting some people in organising something like this.

It seems to me that the aros guys are pretty organised and also quite experienced. I'm sure one or two from that team wold mentor such a project like this if it were head up by the right people (known entities in the amiga community).

Suggested "Minimig community project" startup:
1) Identify a spear head person
2) Approach Dennis and get his blessing/involment
3) Beg for mentorship from aros guys
4) start building the minimig community
--) This means that 10 developer boards should be built
--) Developer boards are given to proven amiga developers with track record
--) Developer boards are returned to the minimig community project if no significant deliverables are made after say 6 months
--) Developer boards can in them self be bounties for the developer if a contribution is deemed worthy of the project.
5) Nominate Dennis as head hw designer with a second in command head designer
6) Nominate a software head designer with seccond in command designer
A posting a day keeps the sanity away...
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Offline arnljot

Re: Minimig PCB run - interest thread
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2007, 02:47:46 AM »
Quote

freqmax wrote:
arnljot:
The url is: http://www.opencircuits.com/Minimig_Project
(just noticed the spelling :-) )


I am aware of this site. The page seems more "wikipedian" rather than a work tool for an open source project. It should be more documentary of the project (like a part list!).

Quote

freqmax wrote:
I think people will do whatever they feel is rewarding because of what can be achieved rather than any monetary gain.


And thats the "magic" and power of open sourcing! But I do also believe in bounties as an added tool for fast tracking some developments and sourcing some help from other parties that normally wouldn't be available to an opensource project. Like for instance an bounty to fix the designs and make them more widely available to more people, like the file format and incorporate the 1.1 memory hack in the 1.0 design. These seem to me like trvial fixes a PCB board manufacturer should be able to do when doing a first batch run to manufacture the board.

Quote

freqmax wrote:
As for USB, maybe it's possible to do some "USB Light" in verilog, invisable to the Amiga? (or a small soft cpu to do the data management).


This was my thought too. As far more feeble devices than the minimig can handle simple USB operations (like stereops etc). This should be handled in a "WinUAE" way so that periperhals (mice joystic) is available as control devices in the amiga, and storage devices should come up as harddrives (UAE style).

Quote

freqmax wrote:
After looking at what the FPGA ports can be configured into. It seems both USB-12Mbps and 10Base-T can be accomplished by directly connect said interfaces to 3-4 resp 4 io pins.


Nice, btw. You seem like a fellow who should be recruited by dennis in an open source project as someone either a doer (if your skills match) or at least as admin as you can assess the merit of goals and their complexity?

Quote

freqmax wrote:
What I think should go into Minimig v1.1 are the issues mentioned below, to be solved and integrated:
http://www.opencircuits.com/Minimig_Board_v1.0_issues


Agree, a version 1.1 should be a cleanup and update of what exists so far.

Quote

freqmax wrote:
I have added a lot of info on the minimig worthwhile for anyone interested in starting lowlevel bit poking in minimig. At present it looks like hardfile r/w support can be implemented by a simple modifications of verilog sources, and mcu firmware. Same goes for 10Base-T, as it happens user0+1 and user2+3 consist of two differential capable io's.

As for actually producing a minimig v1.1. I have component list and schematic. It's just the "pcb" program that don't seem to want to autoroute the board.


See, now there is atleast three people capable of taking care of the minimig community: Dennis, xenepp and yourself! ;)
A posting a day keeps the sanity away...
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Offline arnljot

Re: Minimig PCB run - interest thread
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2007, 03:24:35 AM »
@all & @jkonstan

I'm really impressed with you guys and your tech knowledge!

If only all these investigations where logged in a project and kept organised... ;)
A posting a day keeps the sanity away...
http://www.arnljot.com