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Author Topic: The future of Windows (had a huge argument with my bro)  (Read 7705 times)

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Offline FixerTopic starter

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The future of Windows (had a huge argument with my bro)
« on: October 28, 2007, 05:02:42 AM »
I kind of need you alternative OS nuts to help me out a bit here.

First the story (longish, sorry):

Being that I don't do much with computers these days (except web, email, media and office stuff etc.) I actually don't have a very powerful x86 machine myself. So far Windows XP SP1 covers those tasks reasonably.

I started thinking of getting into a LAN game with my brothers. I have 3 younger brothers, and they all use Windows XP on fairly modern PCs. We all live together.

So I am thinking about buying a new 64bit Dual Core PC, so I can join in on their gaming.

I was discussing what hardware to get with one of them (he's a bit of a hardware focused guy) and I just happen to let it slip that if I'm getting a 64bit computer that it might be nice to try a 64bit version of Linux.. to really make the most of it (use XP SP2 just for games).

Well, when I mentioned using Linux he essentially went mad at me.

He doesn't see the point - he said "Why? Windows works! It's just there, and it does everything you need it to do, including games which Linux can't".

I started to explain that I think Windows is pretty bad internally, and crashes for silly reasons.

I also mentioned that I don't mind XP but Vista is awful with inconsistent GUI, poor backwards compatibility and a resource hog that takes away the point of using it as a modern OS. (Last time I tried Vista anyway.)

He then mentioned that the last time he tried Linux (an old version of SUSE, I think) he couldn't even do something simple that was done with a few clicks on Windows. I agreed that you have to use the terminal sometimes for simple things on Linux but I also explained distros like Ubuntu are really improving on that...

I also said the last time I tried Ubuntu I could do 85% of what I do on computers very easily (games not included in that stat).

And so the debate raged on.. Eventually he started getting tired of arguing, got drunk and then put South Park on.

Near the end of the argument our points got very speculative/assumptions.

I was saying if Vista didn't sort out its backwards compatibility problems.. that it eventually wouldn't be the main OS anymore, especially considering you can run Windows XP on Macs too.

He started saying that Linux has no money, doesn't advertise and essentially has no serious desktop userbase (he was drunk at this stage, the actual line was more like "none of ma fckn friends uses it, nobody uses it!")

.. I had to explain that Linux is at least used seriously in the Server Industry.

Another more valid point he made was that I, personally, would probably get sick of having two OSes on my system and would eventually back away from the dual-boot scenario to the more simple "use the OS that does everything for me and works scenario".

That has yet to be seen.

As for now this is where you guys come in...

-- Is 64bit Linux/Ubuntu a worthwhile alternative to use as a general use OS?

-- Does Linux make a good secondary OS? (any dual-boot issues, for instance?)

-- What is the future of Microsoft's Windows operating system?

- Will Vista be dominant, or crash and burn against competitors Linux/Mac?

- Will Windows XP do for another 5 years?

- Is Leopard gonna kick their buts out the desktop market? :crazy:

- How big is the desktop Linux userbase anyway? What gaps in the market has Linux filled?

- How commercial is Linux?

-- Is Amiga coming back to take them all out? Lol :lol:

Well these are just some of the questions that came up in our 'heated' argument. I know some of them can't be definitively answered, which is part of the reason I posted them on this forum with its ensemble lot of techies, geeks and generally awesome dudes! ;-)

Hopefully our collective knowledge/intelligence/resources will suffice.

Hope you can help. :-)
 

Offline FixerTopic starter

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Re: The future of Windows (had a huge argument with my bro)
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2007, 01:00:17 PM »
Quote

InTheSand wrote:
My 2c worth:

XP will do just fine until Microsoft stops releasing fixes for it - this is probably the OS to stick with for now if you've already bought and paid for it (though if you're stuck at SP1, I wonder!!!)


It seems the PC I'm using now (old P3) doesn't like anything over SP1. My friend tried SP2 on it before he gave it to me and it apparently just ran sluggish on everything.

SP1 seems to work fine. I just make sure to set up the firewall properly before connecting to the net for the first time and I also disable Java in Firefox. I don't appear to get Viruses. I do a spyware scan now and then though.

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AndrewBell wrote:
Yes, XP has a few more years yet. Many people still use 98, and the signs are that XP could keep going for just as long.


Hi Andrew.

Yeh I was using 98 myself for ages after I gave up with Amiga. In-fact, I only ever really went to XP on a whim.

I tried XP out "for the heck of it". I don't think I realised at the time that it would be the OS so many people are having trouble breaking free from. I personally thought 98 did everything it needed to when I had it - the same way people think about XP now I guess.

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benJamin wrote:
Personally, when running older games, Linux with Wine is compatible with more games than Windows.  Most of the focus of Wine is making the new Windows games work on Linux (esp. WoW, etc.).

I have a quad-boot (Fedora, Windows, AROS and Amiga Forever(KX Light), and I almost NEVER boot directly into the other partitions.  If I really need to use Windows, I boot it in the VM.


I don't think people realise exactly how much can be done without using Windows. The belief of the situation that Linux doesn't play PC games is also nowhere near as vast as some make out.

I like a lot of old games myself, so Wine sounds excellent.

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Belial6 wrote:
The one thing I would suggest if you decide to dual boot is to get a second hard drive.

You can then use the BIOS boot selector to pick which drive you want to boot to.


The only real thing that I'm worried about is something I came across once when trying Ubuntu:

Whenever I had a SATA and a PATA HDD in at the same time it basically refused to make the GRUB boot area thingy on the SATA drive (which was naturally where I wanted the OS installed).

Not that huge a deal - I could just s*d IDE – kinda hoping they've fixed the bug by now though. If not I'll prolly do it your way. Cheers!

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da9000 wrote:
Fixer dude, your whole conversation is speculation. I don't even see the complication in decision making:

If you've got the computer and you want or feel like installing/running Linux, AROS, or whatever other OS and you CAN, I say do it, just because you CAN.


Thinking about the argument I had with him again, in retrospect, I should have just said that sentence of yours I've highlighted (bold) straight after he went mad at me for mentioning Linux.

It would have saved a lot of time. Unfortunately I have this bad habit of getting into the most stupid of conversations and arguments with my brothers. You know how it is...

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Not trying it, well then, I can see a lot of harm: lost opportunity to learn and expand your knowledge and experience (even negative experiences are helpful: they tell you what not to try next time, or what to improve yourself in next time)

Oh I definitely plan to try it. I ain't going the Vista route and what's the point of having a 64bit machine without a 64bit OS?

It's pretty much a deciding factor for me now I think. Compare the next-gen OSes, and Vista just doesn't quite make the cut.

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Chubbyrain wrote:
I'd stay well away from Vista, which was essentially forced on a user base who didn't want it. Typical Microsoft really. We'll only make DX10 for Vista so in three years you HAVE to buy our product if you want to play games.


Yeh I heard about this; disgusting really.

Still, another reason for me not to migrate to that OS. Not that I would anyway, when navigating Vista there's something about it that I just can't stand!

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koaftder wrote:
Don't worry about what your brother or anybody else has to say about OS choice. People for the most part learn how to use one thing and pretty much stick with it. If somebody who uses windows all the time and doesn't have specific computing needs, linux will probably piss them off even if everything works. My girlfriend has used windows her whole life, and when she for some odd reason runs into a situation where she has to use one of my macs, it buggs her.

She gets caught up on stupid stuff like location of icons and keyboard short cuts. Oh well.


I think you've hit the nail on the head there as far as my brother is concerned.

When someone says I've been taught how to use the computer or know how to use one, what they really mean is they know how to operate Windows. If kids grow up with them, casually using them, then anything else would be like learning a new language I guess.

I still don't understand why most schools and things (in this country) force you to use a commercial OS and office software.
 

Offline FixerTopic starter

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Re: The future of Windows (had a huge argument with my bro)
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2007, 01:04:53 PM »
@Karlos

LMAO

Do you have brothers? :-D

My brothers and I have got into fist fights over less than this!
 

Offline FixerTopic starter

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Re: The future of Windows (had a huge argument with my bro)
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2007, 01:12:39 PM »
Quote

seer wrote:
If you want to run a 64bit Windows go for Vista. I've been running it since its release, almost everything runs on it except a few very old games. Most mainstream hardware has support for it. (And no, UAC isn't bothering me at all, I don't have the habit of installing new programs every second..)


I want to go 64bit.

Options I can think of are XP 64bit, Vista and Linux.

I'm not using 64bit XP for reasons that you and others have stated. I don't want to use Vista at all.

It's really just a case now of choosing Linux distros. I'll prolly try Ubuntu out for awhile.
 

Offline FixerTopic starter

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Re: The future of Windows (had a huge argument with my bro)
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2007, 01:21:51 PM »
Quote

kd7ota wrote:
Finally, a good topic to put in my two cents..  :-)

Honestly, I am VERY impressed with Ubuntu linux. Just about a week or so ago 7.10 came out, and when I tried the live boot, wireless worked!  Everything I threw at it, it did VERY swiftly.  This was on a PC with a 2.4ghz P4.  Heck, even if you have 256mb on linux, it takes you a good distance.


Oh acutally one of my other brothers was very tempted to use Ubuntu on a spare laptop as a dedicated machine.

The only reason he didn't (in the end) was because he couldn't get the wireless working.

If it's sorted now I'll have to mention it to him. Thanks.
 

Offline FixerTopic starter

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Re: The future of Windows (had a huge argument with my bro)
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2007, 05:12:25 AM »
For the ones who didn't understand the commercial Linux question, I only asked about that because it was one of my brother's drunken rants as a point for Linux not being a real desktop solution.

It's silly I know, but I think he just meant that only advertised products stand a chance in the real world. He clearly has no concept of the open-source market.

As someone mentioned earlier he prolly is a victim of FUD.. or just very narrow-minded.