MiniMig + PowerPC = OS4 Hardware for all

[AndrewBell]

Interesting idea. Probably wouldn't count as a classic Amiga as far as the license goes.

Here's a prediction: I bet Piru will say it's impossible, pointless, too much effort, or all 3.
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Raptor 700r

[AndrewBell]

Jethro_Tull wrote:
Whether it counts as a classic dosen't really matter, as long as it can run an off the shelf, original copy of OS4!  The PowerPC-Minimig can be sold without OS4 and Kickstart, which the buyer would then obtain from Hyperion and Cloanto respectively.  In time, it might even be possible to emulate other machines or use it as a general small form factor board!

So your idea is to make this address and register compatible with an A1200/BPPC or A4000/CSPPC. I didn't pick up on that. That would probably bring up other problems though, such as sourcing 603/604 processors.
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Ford Granada (North America) Picture

[AndrewBell]

We need to source processors which are merely compatible, not perfect copies. Also, we just need to emulate the Blizzard PPC accelerator just enough to run OS4, which at face value seems easier then emulating perfectly an entire Amiga, down the the chipset timing.

I read something recently about G5 processors not being suitable for BlizzardPPC emulation, something to do with it being 64 bit maybe. I don't know if the same applies to G3/G4/Freescale CPUs.

While Dennis had the to emulate an A500 perfectly in order to run the vast reportoire if Amiga games, which depended upon the MiniMig behaving EXACTLY like an A500, this time we simply need to emulate a Blizzard just enough to run OS4 reliably. I beleive, that since OS4 runs on a various platfroms (A1, MicroA1, CybertSorm, Blizzard etc) it is a lot more forgiving then most Amiga games and other hardware hitting programs. Indeed, emulating the general setup of the Blizzard PPC might be enough to get OS4 going!

How precisely you need to emulate depends on OS4. I would expect it to have some checks to prevent it from running on a Mac or PearPC. Remember that the A1 has a licensed ROM that is checked. Also, OS4 for Classic requires a 68K CPU for it's first boot.
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Vapir No2

[AndrewBell]

Really, the alternative is either shell out a small fortune for used hardware, buy a fragile and discontinued A1 or hope the current legal issues are resolved and wait for Hyperion to port OS4 to the SAM440. None of the options sound better then having an open hardware platform for existing, unmodified OS4 in my books!

Surely the easiest solution would be a piece of software similiar to Mac-on-Linux. Then you could run it on existing Mac hardware.
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STARCRAFT II REPLAYS

[AndrewBell]

Jethro_Tull wrote:
Indeed a software emulator which relies on a real CPU would also be an ideal solution!

Technically speaking, MoL is a "virtual machine", not an emulator.

it seems ACube already had some working prototype up and running.  Maybe they could team up with Cloanto (they're both Italian after all) and release AmigaPPC Forever OS4, what a mouthfull!

I think ACube actually got OS4 running on a Mac mini, which brings us back to the licensing issues. As for Cloanto, I think they just packaged WinUAE and OS3.9 together, as far as I know they haven't done any emulation coding.

MoL is open source, I think that would be the best place to start.
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Xxx Tube

[AndrewBell]

Jethro_Tull wrote:
However, if  OS4 Classic and the Amiga virtualisation software are sold seperatly, wouldn't that beat the licensing issues?

That depends on the contract between Hyperion and AInc.

After all, OS4 is intended to run on classic hardware, no harm done from from Hyperion's part.  As for the Amiga virtualisaton software, it could be sold seperatly, without any of Amiga Inc's precious IP included, thus avoiding their wrath and sidestepping any licensing issues.  Cloanto, would simply supply the legal Kickstart files if they're needed to run OS4.

Again, it depends on the existing contract. I'm 100% certain that AInc wouldn't just accept the situation. An independent, open-source VM would be harder to pursue in the courts though.
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SUZUKI X-90

[AndrewBell]

Piru's opinions are his own, but you'd be better off listening to him since he knows more about the Amiga and developing software for it than almost anyone on these boards. His sometimes rather negative seeming attitude isn't really that, he'd probably love it if you turned around with the aforementioned PPC MiniMig design totally open sourced and with a working demo board, but he's quite familiar with how difficult these things are.

First off, reread the thread and you'll see that I was/am sceptical about the idea of a PPC Minimig.

Secondly, my remark about Piru related to his "contribution" in another Minimig thread. His remarks were abrupt and unhelpful, and basically boiled down to him not wanting people to waste time on something he considered pointless. I would go as far as to call it trolling. I'm touched by his concern, but he doesn't dictate how I spend my free time.
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Toyota Stout Specifications

[AndrewBell]

LawlessPPC wrote:
im hoping that once os4 classic ships its gonna get into the hands of the usual ingenious amiga coders and theyll patch it to boot on efika, peg, and any other ppc hardware out there

To do that you'd probably be better off with the A1 version. OS4 Classic boots from 68k first, loads the new kickstart modules, switches off the 68k and reboots on PPC. It may be possible to skip the first boot phase, but you'll still be left with a MAJOR problem. OS4 Classic doesn't have drivers for SATA, RADEON video cards etc.
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ZB50

[AndrewBell]

JosephC wrote:
I did not sign any contract relinquishing my right to patch a program to run on a newer model of CPU.  I am free to patch my AmigaOS as I see fit.

Go and read the license agreement that appears during AOS install before you say that. I've never read it myself, but most commercial software imposes terms and conditions that you agree to by installing, or sometimes even opening the package.
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Montana Medical Marijuana Dispensary

[AndrewBell]

Eclipse wrote:
?
Are you my brother?

Who are you asking?
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Vaporizers

[AndrewBell]

Kronos wrote:
...... but there is no way you could BUY an A1 version of OS4 .....

You can't buy it, but you can find it on the P2P networks.
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FORD TORINO TALLADEGA

[AndrewBell]

what would be the point in using a pci card on the efika that was a clone of aga 020 040 etc?

Better compatibility than E-UAE maybe? More accurate emulation with less CPU usage perhaps.

No point unless it was standalone clone.

Really? What about reducing the number of PC cases, keyboards and mice? Thats just one reason I think might justify it.

Leave this 3.x stuff for classic amigas or uae etc.

Why?

OS4 and MOS run on PPC.

No sh*t, Sherlock. The thread is about getting OS4 classic running on new hardware because demand outstrips supply. Well done on completely missing the point.

Plus it would take up the only one PCI slot on the Efika5K2 unless you had bridges.

Bollocks. 2 and 3 slot PCI riser cards are easy to find.

Theres just no need for an PCI amiga card.

Again, utter bollocks. People have been trying to make an Amiga on PCI for a decade. There must be some need.
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Torneo

[AndrewBell]

(E)UAE isn't designed to take real Amiga-chips, otherwise such a version would have been available for Amigas (with 060 or PPC). Changing that would require a major overhaul, and wether such a version would be more compatible than the normal SW-only version is more than questionable.

It isn't possible, full stop. The same is true with VirtualPC on Windows, and MoL on Linux.

Putting such a card into an EFIKA is even more pointless, as it can take only 1 PCI card, and an Amiga without GFX-card doesn't really cut anymore (ask anone who is running a BPPC without one).

Then use something like this:

http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=8#p1902

An Minimig/Clone-A in a joystick may be fun, one with fast 68k might be a nice tinkering toy, one with GFX-card AND AGA might even proove usefull to some, but an PPC-Amiga with just AGA is a pain in the a...

Says you. Other people may be happy with PPC/AGA.
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PLYMOUTH ROAD RUNNER

[AndrewBell]

jkonstan wrote:
Interesting, A-Cube Systems is advertising OS4.

Well spotted, they've only been advertising it for a few months. Maybe this is connected with their announcement of OS4 pricing.

Their SAM440EP board is a bit pricey and a possible OS4 PowerPC target.

No, really? And I thought the SAM used UBOOT for some other reason. Hmmm, that would explain the strategic partnership with Hyperion that was announced earlier in the year.

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Ford v-8 specifications

[AndrewBell]

What isn't posible (you somewhat lost me here)....

Your point about (E)UAE on an Amiga making use of the Amiga chipset to aid emulation. That's what isn't possible.

I mentioned MoL and VPC to illustrate how other emulators/VMs are equally restricted.

Oh, and would you please name one piece of SW that demands both PPC AND AGA ?

Why? I never said there was any software like that, did I? My point was that you were wrong when you stated that "an PPC-Amiga with just AGA is a pain in the a...". Some people still run Workbench on AGA, so they would benefit from the increased speed of PPC.
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BUY NO2 VAPORIZER