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Author Topic: Damn kids these days...  (Read 5022 times)

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Offline Damion

Re: Damn kids these days...
« on: March 23, 2005, 08:18:30 AM »
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More energy should be put on the fact that kids are killing each other, not on discussing the way they're doing it.


Cheers :pint:

It's an issue at the base societal level, can't work from the top down (by legislating gun control).  
 

Offline Damion

Re: Damn kids these days...
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2005, 10:46:24 AM »
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Our "Hard Men" fight with their fists.


Dude, I totally agree you'd have to be sick in the head to solve problems with guns, no one here is advocating that...but I still can't comprehend how forcing Jimmy Smith legal gun enthusiast to give up his hobby is going to prevent a criminal from killing/robbing with an illegally obtained firearm, especially when the statisitcs say thaaaaat's who is committing the (gun related) crimes.

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The scary thing is that your society accepts these tragic casualties in exchange for the right to carry arms and, to an outsider, look utterly moronic, naive, and stupid with them.


That's simply not the case. You're viewing "the weapon" as the root cause of these types of incidents, whereas I have to ask WTF is wrong with the parents of these children (and the the school officials) for not recognizing and preventing these tragedies beforehand. Nobody here is wearing gun ownership as some sick badge of honor "in spite" of what happened, that's absolutely beyond ludicrous. In this situation, the gun, and the psychological deficit, are really separate considerations.

(BTW -- There are several notable incidents where mentally derranged individuals used intruments other than firearms to injure/kill people, so I don't see how "but what if there was no gun" is a valid argument.)

As far as "looking" moronic, I'm willing to bet many would consider toying around with old amigas equally naive and ridiculous, everyone should be entitled to their hobby of choice so long as it doesn't infringe upon the welfare and safety of others. And the interesting thing is, as many gun conventions as I've been to, there are usually far more Australians, Europeans, and South Africans present than Americans...which is kinda funny considering what some of you are saying.

As I see it, legislating away legal firearms ownership would be the exact same as a group of goose-stepping "state officials" deciding that squares and circles should be contraband, simply becasue "they" don't prefer them...therefore nobody else has any legitimate use for them either. It's entirely wacky, in a Stalinist-era Russia way...and doesn't make any sense.

 

Offline Damion

Re: Damn kids these days...
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2005, 09:30:41 AM »
@Cymric

Very excellent points, and I agree that our differing opinions have largely been shaped by different environments (which I will touch on in a bit).

I believe both you and X-ray have nicely articulated all facets of this discussion far better than I could, and at the risk of repeating myself ad nauseum, I will leave my main argument by stating that its premise rests upon my belief that objects "in themselves" do not fundamentally contain traits such as "dangerous" or "safe". Though it would be silly to deny the links between objects and how humans interpret and utilize them, from my standpoint they are not sufficient to justify the regulation of firearms in the USA as per a country such as Britain, given what can be drawn from the statistics.

To address your direct questions:

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Let me put it this way: you say you have been to several conventions, and I trust that means that you own firearms. Why do you have them, and why should I trust you not to do anything funny with them?


OK, I'll start with a little background. I was raised around the topic of firearms, and from a very young age was taught to operate them safely and responsibly long before my first round was fired, well prior to having held or even seen one in person. That said, I don't personally have guns in my possession anymore, have no real use for them, and don't fancy them as a serious hobby (although I will inevitably inherit a few of the family "jewels" at some point). I would describe both my knowledge and interest in firearms as "average".

The best conventions I attented were by far those hosted by the Safari Club organization, where in one sitting I had the opportunity to meet individuals from all around the globe, on the whole I would say these ladies and gents were easily as intelligent, knowledgeable and enthusiastic about their hobby/profession as you would find at any computer convention of similar size and scope. The stereotype of the "backwoods", "trigger happy" rifle slinger couldn't be further from the truth when it comes to these guys. (Plus, as much as I will never hunt for sport, no honest man could balk at the site of an attractive woman in a tight-fitting leapord skin top and shorts.)
 
As to why people would want to own them, well there is an acquired skill involved in their efficient use and handling, an artform present in their construction which brings to some a certain "sense" appeal, the same as others may appreciate Schubert's Klaviersonaten, a fine wine...vintage SL roadsters or (for me) a Ducati 996. That is where my analogy to amigas comes into play. It would be very unfair for me to marginalize all computers and their enthusiasts simply because a very small percentage of them can (and do) use them illegally and irresponsibly, causing harm to others. (Keeping in mind that in the Columbine incident, students detonated lethal weapons other than firearms, even though they had "easy" access to guns. They created them, in part, from instructions found on the internet. In other scenarios, we know of examples where motor vehicles were used to similar ill effect.)

This also touches on the issue of trust you have mentioned. In any society, citizens must be entrusted with certain rights and responsibilities, some of them requiring specific intervention and assessment by a governing body in order to ensure the safety and welfare of the "common good" (such as a driving licence, schooling and certification for doctors/etc) . I am entirely in support of the fair and honest regulation of firearms, I am totally OK with making it more difficult for criminals to obtain them, so long as it doesn't infringe upon the rights for those who enjoy them safely and responsibly to obtain them, or happen to draw an income from their sale or manufacture (like an acquaintance of mine who designs custom, carbon fiber barrels for .50 caliber projectiles).

"Global", blanket-type gun legislation irks me along the same vein as the way our government handled aircraft security after 9/11. It's not really the absence of guns that's bothersome, it's the general errosion of rights that serves no purpose to the honest citizen, while doing little or nothing to prevent criminal activity.

My apologies for the excessively long rant....and on that note, it's about time for a :pint:

cheers