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Author Topic: Anyone drive a hybrid?  (Read 17098 times)

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Offline falemagn

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Re: Anyone drive a hybrid?
« on: February 20, 2007, 11:58:05 AM »
Interesting thread. Don't have much to add, don't drive an hybrid car nor I own a normal car, for reasons ranging from not wanting to add even more pollution to this world to the costs involved in owning and driving a car here in Italy (it would cost me up to 4000 EUR per year, if not more).

But I'm keeping an eye on the development of the technology in this area, and I've got a link to share with you all: http://www.autobloggreen.com/.

Hope that's of interest. :-)
 

Offline falemagn

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Re: Anyone drive a hybrid?
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2007, 01:23:43 PM »
Another hybrid some of you might be interested in is the VentureOne, a three-wheeled, two seats vehicle which gets classified as a motorcycle but with all the benefits and safety of a car, a mileage of 100Mpg and a way of driving it which promises to be a helluva lotta fun! :-)
 

Offline falemagn

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Re: Anyone drive a hybrid?
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2007, 06:17:40 PM »
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Dandy wrote:

[...]
Both actually exist and work fine. Now it's up to the politicians to create an an legal environment where this new technique can prosper...


The hydrogen economy is a flawed economy. To extract hydrogen you need energy, typically electricity, but if you've got electricity in the first place then you can use it directly. Battery technology has improved a lot and continues to do so.

Moreover, hydrogen is quite a dangerous gas, it needs to be stored properly, transported properly, and needs very costly infrastructures. You don't want an hydrogen car to pick fire.


Why an hydrogen economy doesn't make sense.
 

Offline falemagn

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Re: Anyone drive a hybrid?
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2007, 05:50:31 PM »
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Dandy wrote:

Of course you can use the electricity directly, wherever it makes sense!


It makes sense anywhere except, perhaps, in some quite exceptional situations. For sure it makes sense in cars!

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falemagn wrote:

Battery technology has improved a lot and continues to do so.



...but involves a lot of substances hazardous to health and environment, once released - maybe by an crash.


We're not in the times of lead-acid batteries anymore, these are the times of lithium ions batteries mixed with certain kind of nanomaterials that boost their performances and make them viable alternatives to fuel.

Have a look at AltairNano and A123, for instance.

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Furthermore current batteries (which actually are accumulators) mean a lot of additional weight, which results in less payload or less operating range.


Accumulator is a broader term than "battery". A rechargeable battery is an accumulator, but an accumulator isn't necessarily a battery. As for weight, what matters is power density, which measures how much energy can be stored in a unit of volume, and certain batteries have power density higher than standard fuel which makes them more viable than fuel. Add to that that electric motors are less complicated and much lighter than ICE's, and you get the right picture.

Here's some real world examples, cars you can buy right now: the Tesla Motors' sport car and the Phoenix Motors' SUT.

Head to http://www.autobloggreen.com/ to see what this is all about.

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falemagn wrote:

Moreover, hydrogen is quite a dangerous gas, it needs to be stored properly, transported properly, and needs very costly infrastructures.



While it`s not so dangerous as you may think, you are of course right - "it needs to be stored properly, transported properly, and needs very costly infrastructures".

But this is valid for all other fuels as well, especially, if you include the costs for damages to the environment.


It's not valid for electricity: we do have transport infrastructures for it already in place and battery technology has improved to a point where environmental concerns are just out of place: lithium isn't environmentally hazardous and it can be recycled.

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If hydrogene gas leaks out of a tank, it immediately rises rises up to the sky, as hydrogene is the lightest element.


Yes, and it might react with the oxygen in the air, explosively so, or go up to the higher atmosphere where it's likely to cause damages to the ozone layer.

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So in case of an accident where a hydrogene tank is penetrated, the "dangerous fuel" immediately rises up in the air (in contrary to a case where a gasoline tank is penetrated) where it either peacefully burns or is diluted until the concentration is beyond fammability.


You forget that to store hydrogen you need very high pressures, which means that if you manage to break an hydrogen tank you need to be prepared to some of the most disastrous explosions both for the flammability of the gas and the pressure it's stored at.

Regardless, there are economical reasons for which hydrogen just doesn't make sense for cars, as explained by the page I gave you a link to.