My evening with Commodore USA, LLC

[Darrin]

Nothing was stolen!!! AI has licensed the IP to Hyperion, Cloanto, and CUSA. AI is not developing anything. Amiga was a 68k computer developed in the 80's and early 90's by Commodore International. None of these is the amiga or even a real succesor to the amiga.

This is 2011, nothing we have is related other than by license to the real amiga. But we can fight and squable and carry on about stuff we don't like, or we can relax, and like what we like and let others do the same.

There is an active "AMiga" product in the shape of OS4.x.

The "Amiga" name has been hijacked and is being deliberately used to undermine this long time and active product.

C-USA are a bunch of wasters and their actions are disgusting.

What don't you understand?

[Darrin]

This would have been the "sane" solution for C-USA:

Commodore PCs - a line of C= branded PCs running a variety of off-the-shelf OS's (Win, Linux, etc) or with a blank HD.
Commodore "Classic" PCs - as above, but with a Commodore themed case and AmigaForever/C64 Forever pre-installed with possily USB-Analog joystick adapters, joysticks and games.
Commodore Amiga cases - replacement cases for existing Amiga-like machines (Amiga1000-4000, OS4.x mobos, Minimig solutions, etc)
Commodore Amiga models - A line of Amiga compatable machines using Minimig/FPGA Arcade and eventually Natami supplied with a preconfigured SD Card containing ROMs, WB3.x and games.

Instead, they're up to something evil.

[Darrin]

If you aren't a potential customer what are your opinions worth to them. Not much. If you continue expessing them like this? they will, because you will be an enemy.

But he could have been if they had a sane business model that didn't involve shafting those who had been keeping the Amiga name alive through the dark years.

[Darrin]

Something evil?!??!?!  HA HA HA freaking... seriously?!

Are you still drunk?

No, I'm perfectly sane.  I admit my choice of words is a little colourful, but they're not off the mark.

[Darrin]

Again, how are they shafting ANYONE? right from the beginning they said they wanted to work with the powers that be, they even considered AROS as an OS. They didnt consider OS4 because there is no way to do that and stay in business.

I have come to the conclusion that you are a C-USA "sock puppet" and you're only here to continually repeat their party line.

I'm done with you.

You know they're scum and their business model sucks.  You fail to address my alternative business plan, because this isn't about business plans.  It probably has more to McEwan sticking it to Hyperion which either means he has his fingers in C-USA or sgafting Hyperiod was part of the deal.

[Darrin]

How is he shafting "The Name"?  He's spending millions on the first TV advertising for the C64x, something I don't think C= did for an entire year worth of advertising budget.  So far he's shown off some possible cases for the Amiga series, is that enough for you to damn him and his company for showing off possible cases?  I don't get it, perhaps I shouldn't want to.

Ah, "Sock puppet #2".

I've explained it and so have several others.

[Darrin]

Red is a longterm, respected member of amiga.org, he went, he saw, he reported, they arent up to anything sinister, Barry Altman is a long time Commodore fan, and successful business man, who wants to do more than just a case mod for himself.

Your comments, are off the mark.

Red has is a born optimist and more interested in "Commodore" than "Amiga".

The attempts to recruit him are smart and reminds me of the actions of another company from several years ago.

[Darrin]

That's what this boils down to, Hyperion.  That's your real worry, not about legacy, it's about Hyperion...

No, "doing what is right" is what it boils down to.

"Ethics" is another.

Something you and C-USA fail to promote.

[Darrin]

You THINK they are scum, you THINK the model suck, but what the heck do you know.

More than you, obviously.

And I'm very successful too thanks, mostly because I know scum when I see it.

[Darrin]

Then we have Hyperion, who was contracted by Amiga Inc to do 4 months of developing work (some carefully defined work tasks, as outlined by the Friedens themselves) for which they would get a specified sum of money.

The four months passed. *Years* passed. But Hyperion never delivered according to their contract. Instead they simply took the money, held the code hostage for years while hoping for Amiga Inc to die, constantly FUD'ing MorphOS in the meantime in order to sabotage its market (this one is a personal favorite of mine: "The failure of Amiga Inc and the MorphOS team to come to terms is in part due to the fact that Amiga wants to assert their ownership and intellectual property rights over the Amiga OS (for which they paid 4.5 M USD) whilst the MorphOS team happily continues to refute those claims", as it so beautifully pictures the hypocrisy of Hyperion and irony of the situation that came to follow).

Then they try to rob Amiga Inc of their IP, but luckily the resulting "settlement" (cough cough) didn't result in a transfer of ownership of the Amiga IP to this mediocre Linux game porting company, and I'm glad that their products won't be called "Amiga", but amigaos or amigaone. Because Hyperion's ethics stinks, and so does their code, and nobody gave them the right to proclaim "Amiga" to be the degraded mishmash of poor performing code, poor and partly broken Amiga compatibility, relying on the second class Amiga API's and standards, Linux API's, lacking important standards, etc, and tying it to usury priced HW of poor performance and dubious quality. So I'm glad they aren't allowed to sell it as "Amiga"; since this will make it easier to advice people to stay clear from Hyperion's products without necessarily staying clear of "Amiga".

AFAIK, Commodore has a valid agreement with the IP owner to use the *Amiga* brand. This is very legal, and compared to what Hyperion has done during the last years, it's *very* ethical!

Ah, shall we drag Genesi in too?

Hyperion won in court, that's good enough for me.

I don't expect a long-term MOS fanboy to agree with me.

However, what do you think of C-USA's Workbench 5 marketing?  Perhaps they could call it "Morph Workbench 5"?

[Darrin]

Have you met Barry? have you seen his company? have you seen his work on CUSA? I'm betting no, Red has, I take his work well over yours, especially since you seem to be saying the same thing over and over without substantiation.

I've seen what he's made available.  I've seen his threatening letters.  I've seen his stolen images.

First impressions count and the impression is "scum".

The evidence is there and all laid out for us to see.

If he isn't then he has a lot of back-tracking to do and I've seen to evidence of that, just sock puppets bleating on about what a nice guy he is.  Sure...

[Darrin]

So it is good enough for you that hyperion had a legal right, but CUSAs legal right means nothing? I dont expect an off-his-rocker OS4 fanboy to agree with me.

Dear sock puppet.  This has already been answered.  Please look up "ethics".

[Darrin]

Stop calling me a sock puppet, darrin.

You know nothing of ethics, if you think attacking a company that doesnt even remotely appeal to you is ethical. Barry Altman is starting a company he is doing it how he wants to.

You arent doing anything but sitting back and whining. You aren't trying to start a company, you aren't doing anything for the community.

Sure,

Oh, here's a picture of you, Barry and Dammy!


I'm doing lots for the community:  I buy products.  Yesterday I pre-ordered a Chameleon.

I've already pointed out in my business plan how Barry could sell products that would appeal to people.  The question (still unanswered) is why he doesn't.

[Darrin]

I have answered your question several times, you dont seem to actually be reading my posts.
He doesn't have money to do very much hardware development, noone does.
Natami and others are dream projects that more hobby than business.
And he is the one starting the company, putting his own money into it not us. He makes all the choices, and is targetting more than just us, he wants to sell people outside of what we consider the community.

OK, let's start again all civil.

The hardware development for Minimig and FPGA Arcade have already been done and they already exist as functioning models with a development team behind them.

He can sell all he wants outside of the Amiga community using the Commodore brand and he has the potential market of old Amiga users to sell to using custom cases and FPGA based "Amigas" running OS3.x.

The big issue is this Workbench 5 rubbish and promoting AmigaForver type products as the "new generation" Amiga OS when it clearly isn't.

[Darrin]

@ Those arguing it's not an Amiga

Two cavemen sitting in a cave, one next to a fire, eating beef, while the other sits in the distance eating cow shit complaining that THIS cow shit isn't the same as his mate's t-bone steak.

Does it really matter where it came from as long as it keeps you fed?

Yes.

@ Those arguing C=USA's ethics:

Like or not, they were granted the legal right. What's more important? That they have the right to wield the flame? Or whether or not they use thier flame to build or destroy?

Yes, when they seem hell bent on destroying Amiga NG.

@ Those arguing "sock puppets."

Knock it off, please?

Sooty is not amused.

[Darrin]

Wait... we're talking about CUSA using AROS. Anyway, this is where someone looking for success has got it right. Marketing micro's has always been a numbers game. For those involved that *wanted* to succeed en masse that is. Obviously not the agenda of the X1000 or SAM people, but ahem.... Hardware specs aside, let's just focus on OS's for a minute. Mac is up to 10.6, Windoze is at what... 7? MorphOS is at 2.6. AROS/Icaros is at 1.x?

Marketing wise, it's typical that they'll want to continue the practice of padding *any* numbers they can a bit. Average Joe that's out to purchase a new Commodore computer (not us by a long shot, but the people that are going to substantially monetarily supporting their products) is not going to be keen on low numbers or builds. Perception is everything. So yeah, from a marketing or viability standpoint, a Workbench 5 makes more sense than to call it 4.2 as Joe Blow hasn't been keeping up on the soap opera that has been Amiga trademarking and licensing these past 17+ years.

Not sure if this was exactly the angle you were thinking, just trying to put things into a simplistic marketing perspective. Something the Commodore of yore hardly could be bothered with.  :lol:

Commodore OS5 would make even more sense as I would assume that people would expect a Commodore OS on Commodore computers and Commodore is more remembered amoungst the "not we" that Amiga.