FPGA Replay Board

[Darrin]

Nice to see it in action.  Those screens pop up like greased lightning!

[Darrin]

Today I got the bare daughter board from the PCB shop. I need some time to assemble it completely but I've managed to take a picture of it sitting over the Replay Rev. A board

Bloody hell, a 68060, 3 USB sockets, Ethernet, battery (for a clock?) and I suspect extra RAM!  What's the MicroSD card slot for?  Extra storage or required files for the board to work?

[Darrin]

AlexH "MC68060RC50, with the Mask 1E41J." are the ones to go for apparently..
Overclock and run cool.
I'll make some inquries in China next time I am there, they probably have buckets of them hidden away.
/MikeJ

You'll probably find someone who will offer you 1000 of them and then some poor Chinese guy will spend a week unboxing brand new Amiga 4000Ts to yank the CPUs out of them.  

[Darrin]

http://cgi.ebay.ca/XC-68060-RC50-100-WORKING-/260618840054?pt=CPUs&hash=item3cae17e7f6

42 available...

[Darrin]

@Mikej
Why instead of supplying the expansion board with a built-in 68060, you just sell it in two variants, a cheaper one without 68060, only with its socket.

Why make 2 variants when you only need one?  If you don't want the 68060 then you buy the main board with the soft CPU (ideal for most uses and gaming) and then buy the daughterboard if you fancy more power, USB, Ethernet, etc.

Mike's idea of having just one main board makes more economic sense.  Two or more options is just going to add to the base cost.

[Darrin]

You are wrong in your assumption, you should understand you dont need to modify the design, just the amount of components you place on the expansion board (one less). Besides it allows you not to tie the board sales to the availability of Mikej to source 68060 cpus and even allow him to target customers with less income (a 68060 cpu in the 2nd hand market is at least $40).
So this second choice gives both Mikej and customers more freedom without any overhead.

Not really.  It adds components thus price so those who don't want a different CPU end up paying for something they don't need.  Best to keep any "extras" (and the cost of them) on the daughterboard for those who want them.  Remember, you don't need the daughterboard for the FPGA to run, it is an optional extra and the chances are that if you're they type who wants a 68040/68060 then you'll also want USB, Ethernet and anything else you can get your mits on.

[Darrin]

I have my own MC68060RC50 with the Mask 1E41J special for this board.
I think 2 variants are better 1 with and 1 without CPU just the socket, all happy.

You don't want USB, Ethernet, extra RAM and the RTC?

[Darrin]

I'm trying and failing to find a post I think from AlexH about having some laying around. The 060s I see on Ebay today look like "working" pulls and all seem to be in China. There's RC60s now too which I find interesting, back when I was looking for one some years ago there wasn't an RC60, only an RC50. I'd definitely only go with an RC part whichever one, I definitely don't want to leave out any features.

Ah, sorry - you and Gulliver are talking about the daughterboard!  My mistake, I thought Gulliver wanted an empty socket on the main board.  Yes, I can see the logic in supplying the daughterboard minus the CPU for those with spare chips.

[Darrin]

Yes we were talking about the daughterboard.

Yep, sorry about that.  I could try and claim that Welsh is my native language, but that would be a poor excuse.  

[Darrin]

Lots of my questions about the daughter card are answered by MikeJ & Yaqube over on EAB at this: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=744483#post744483 link.

Wow.  Great questions you asked there Dave!  

I love these little snippets:

Q:  what clock speed was used for the 68060?  
A:  I have a rev 6 CPU and expect it to be running at 100 MHz or even over.

Q:  What amount of RAM is planned on the expansion 060 card?  
A:  I have 128 MB of SDRAM. It will run with the same clock speed as the CPU does.

Q:  the Micro-SD card for storage, like a hard drive?  
A:  Exactly. It's intended to be directly accessed as a Amiga hard drive. With the help of DMA the transfer rates will be much higher than with a hard file.

Q:  Are the USB ports supported through Poseiden...?  
A:  We are going to use Poseidon.

This is going to be one hell of an Amiga.  All we need is a fast 16 bit or 32 bit RTG mode to use for Workbench and Workbench friendly apps (such as IBrowse, Final Writer, etc) and it will be perfect.

[Darrin]

Natami is aiming for more performance and an '050 on the fpga.  Hence it will *probably* cost less than a Replay with a *new* 060 and daughter card.

Surely any core the Natami uses in FPGA (and thus performance) could also be used by the bare FPGA Arcade?

Already it has a working 680x0 core in FPGA capable of running WB3.x and running at insane speeds.  As it looks like the 68060 will be running at 100MHz or more, I have to wonder whether the Natami '050 softcore will be able to keep up with a real 68060 at that speed.

It is going to be interesting to compare both machines.

From a pure "Amiga" point of view, I still see the Natami and FPGA Arcade as I used to view the A2000 and the A500 (or A4000 and A1200).  The Natami seems destined for a nice big case, full of expansions and which never has the top fitted because you're always adding to it while the FPGA Arcade is going into a tiny case where you never have to mess with it.  

[Darrin]

NATAMI's fpga is larger and faster than Replay's so unless the team licenses only the SAGA core, that will not be possible.

The target for the '050 is in the 100-150 MHz range and it will have many advances like a larger cache and code-fusing.  Many instuctions will be executed in 1 cycle.

For users, the Natami will not be offered with an '060 card but with a core running the N050.  While the '060 may be considered an upgrade for the Replay, this is not the case with Natami and only serves to get the Natami in developer's hands (expensively) until the cpu core is finalized.

As a CD32+SX1 owner, either board is a serious upgrade in performance for me.

With NEW upgraded affordable hardware in the field, I hope software rises to take advantage of it.

As I understand it, the latest 'core' of Replay is achieving '040-like performance which is great!

Ah, cheers for the info.  Is the Natami FPGA vastly more expensive as a result?  I certainly wasn't expecting the Natami to be priced around the EUR250-350 mark.

[Darrin]

I wonder if the replay board will run even for 24/7 without having any issues.

Can't think why not.  I left my Minimig v1.1 running for over 32 days once when I forgot to switch it off before heading to Brazil.

[Darrin]

That depends on the skills of mikej

In practice if the mechanical stress between the BGA package and the PCB is greater than the solder bonding.. there is trouble. Same if power consumption makes the voltage regulators exceed their power dissipation and thus thermal limit. Dust, moisture or smoke can also mess with the stability. Unusual bit patterns may cause electromagnetic interference within the board, especially if the power capacitors and inductance isn't properly designed. The link between the FPGA and the DRAM may be especially vurnable. Transients or earth loops from external connections is another gotcha.

I hope he does some 24/7 testing to see what fails first.

Some practical things to do:
 * Get a power supply with proper AC-line filters
 * Measure and remove and ground loops between screen, audio amplifier, power supply, etc
 * Fix an enclosure with enough venting holes
 * Use ESD protection at ALL times

Keeping it submerged in a bucket of icy salt-water will help too.

[Darrin]

No,no, no. Salt water is what you use on defective nuclear reactors.

Damn, I always get the Minimig and Nuclear Reactors confused.  No wonder I can't run my house off my Minimg.  

[Darrin]

Most people here would love to have more detailed answers from the Natami team members.  Trying to find information by sifting through the large number of threads on the Natami forums is difficult, plus it is hard to tell which posts there are made by Natami team members, or Natami fanatics making inaccurate statements based on wishful thinking.

So, feel free to hijack threads here with correct information about the Natami project any time.  I for one would like to see more frequent news updates on the Natami project that are straight from a team member.

I agree 100%.

When it comes to Natami information, it is hard to know who is actually stating it, whether it is fact or fiction or even how old it is and what board they're talking about (current or previous versions).

Please keep us updated.