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Author Topic: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)  (Read 16841 times)

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Offline pVC

Re: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)
« on: November 10, 2008, 05:51:01 PM »
I am using both MorphOS2.1 on Pegasos1 and AmigaOS4.1 on A1XE at the moment.

My personal opinion is that MorphOS is more advanced in almost all areas now. MorphOS is more mature and finished production, while OS4.1 needs developing on many areas still.

The most noticeable problem with OS4.1 is the lack of the features in Workbench and especially with the file handling. Roughly said WB is pretty much on same level than on 3.9, while MorphOS's Ambient has developed a LOT. Ambient has lots of features copied from Magellan2 and most users don't even need any external filemanager anymore. On OS4.1 you have to rely on old time two view filemanagers like Dopus4, which isn't comfortable at all for me anymore, as I've used more advanced filemanagers on classic Amigas over ten years.

I also find the OS4.1's oldskool prefs system pretty messy nowadays, when there is much more settings needed than 20 years ago. MorphOS has them more clearly organized and rearranged. OS4.1's prefs also don't feel consistent.. it feels like they've taken prefs from old programs from here and there and haven't adapted them with any plan.

MUI4 is a big advantage for MorphOS. I've always like MUI's way to have power for configuration on user. MUI4 has gotten a lot better than MUI3.x was. It also gives consistency to system and programs as MUI got as de facto standard on Amiga and for example most networking programs use it. Now you can tune whole system with it.

MorphOS's shell is much more advanced than OS4.1's. In OS4.1 you don't have even scrollbar or backbuffer etc, but in MorphOS you have those and even search options for buffer, multiple tabs on one shell, session saving, terminal emulations for ssh use etc etc.

Poseidon4 on MorphOS is also great USB stack. It's feature rich and supports USB2 speeds etc. On OS4.1 I've had some weirdness with USB. With several devices it seems to work bit unreliable. It also is very slow mounting big mass storage devices.. takes almost minute before there comes icon on workbench with my external HD. On MorphOS that's instant. OS4.1 also supports USB1.1 speeds only.

Filetype system is also great on MorphOS, you can define lots of actions for each file type (mimetype). What happens when you doubleclick file, drag&drop file, click it with RMB etc. You can have several different commands for each action. Filetypes are also arranged hierarchly and they inherit the options to lower levels. You can for example make certain actions happen for all pictures and then more exact options for each individual picture format. On OS4.1 you only can edit icon's default tool for each file type.

One nice touch in MorphOS is the "open" command, you can open files from shell with it. It looks operations from Ambient's mimetype settings and uses them to open files. For example "open test.avi" plays movie like it's configured in mimetypes, you don't have to remember what program or options would be needed for that file type.

Then there's lots of small details, like screen title bar modules in MorphOS. You can have things like date, cpu monitor, volume control, network indicators, info from music player etc in screen titlebar.. and the best thing is that it shows up in all screens! Not just on desktop screen. So if you have browser in separate screen, you can see and use all those things on it without need to open Ambient screen.

Amidock on OS4.1 is more versatile than Panels in MorphOS. Amidock can take all kinds of dockies like clock, cpu monitor, lenses etc, but personally I don't like dock kind of things. I'll rather have those kind of apps in MorphOS's screenbar module way.

Overall look and eyecandy is also better in MorphOS. There's cool themes for windows, about 30 different screenblankers (even 3D accelerated demoscene effects), nice background pictures and other gfx, colorful png mouse pointers etc. They really should think these things with OS4 too.. now there's ugly yellowish backgrounds with weird purple scrollbar backgrounds as default theme.

OS installation also tells about finishing touches. MorphOS installer is good looking with only some main points covered. After installation everything is ready in first boot. On OS4.1 there's lots of useless requesters telling what's going to happen next, but then at the end nobody tells if the installation was finished :) There also opens some external windows, which shouldn't be visible to users IMHO. Installation is divided in two phases and there's reboot needed in between. Also some default settings are bad. For example AHI settings had defaulted to mute, no channels, 0 frequency.

I also like MorphOS's IControl prefs. You can define hotkeys for all kind of actions. For example window handling options are good. You can define mouse/keyboard actions to bring windows to front, send them to back, center them, maximize them, activate prev/next etc. You also can do certain things for whole window families. For example bring to front all open windows of certain application. In OS4.1 they're handled with traditional commodities and by default there isn't many.. basically it's old ClickToFront commodity.

OS4 has nice soft reboot, which is fast. MorphOS takes little longer to boot because it does the open firmware stuff in each reboot.

3D support or WOS emulation in OS4 seems to be unfinished. All old Amiga's 3D/PPC games and demos I've tried had problems under OS4.1 while they worked on MorphOS.

Old OS friendly apps seem to work pretty fine under both systems. Some work better under OS4 and some under MorphOS. But OS4.1 feels to be more crashy when they don't work correctly. Worst thing is that filemanagers seem to suffer under OS4.1. But some wordprocessing etc big apps work fine under 4.1, some even better than on MorphOS.

I must say I am bit disappointed on 4.1... especially after getting MorphOS in such fine condition with 2.x releases. And when it's selling as completely new product and not an update to 4.0. But if there wouldn't be MorphOS I surely would be tinkering with OS4 more :) Although filemanagement area should be much more advanced to be able have it as my main platform... I really hope it will get better and more mature product, but there is work to do still.
Daily MorphOS user and Amiga active.
 

Offline pVC

Re: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2008, 04:41:25 PM »
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You seem to have had some problems with OS 4.1 that I haven't had. For example, I've used USB drives and they pop up instantly for me. With the exception of my Force 3D pro having the z and throttle axes swapped, I haven't experienced any USB issues. I know that others have though, but they seem to be related to specific products.


With very limited testing I could guess it depends about the size of mass storage device too. 2GB stick doesn't show up instantly, but lot faster than 250GB drive. When I plug that 250GB drive in, first it doesn't seem to happen anything. With my very first try I had time to start looking mounter program, because I thought it doesn't automount. Then there appears uninitialized icon on desktop and finally it changes to correct drive icon and I can use the drive. Also I had problem to get memory stick to work when having several devices plugged... or maybe I just didn't have patience to wait enough.

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What ugly yellowish background? That's not the OS 4.1 default theme. I'm currently using png mouse pointers on OS 4.1. Oh, and have you tried out the 3D accelerated blankers on OS4?


The default 4.1 theme has yellowish backgrounds everywhere, like in all prefs programs. Or maybe it's just my cheap TFT monitors, but it really shows up like light yellow... reminds me yellowed Amigas or old paper :) Also the rest of the color choises don't work that good together in my opinion, like the red group titles.

I was thinking that this comparison is made with out-of-the-box systems. Or is there PNG pointers or 3D blankers in 4.1 cd somewhere? I haven't noticed... it would go too wide if we take all 3rd party stuff in count here too. BTW. PNG-icons don't seem to work by default on OS4.1 either. It gave me problems at first when some programs had png-icon on their dir and without 3rd party extension the dir wasn't accessible from Workbench.


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I never noticed it opening additional windows that shouldn't be visible. And my default AHI settings worked just fine.  after installation.


Installer opened Dialer shell window at some point of network configuration. It showed unnecessary information and the window wasn't closed by installer ever. That gave me uncertain feeling if the installation was finished at the end, because it wasn't closed or there wasn't any information if everything was completed.

AHI had all settings zeroed when it opened its config window during the installation. I noticed it, but forgot to change everything and that's why I didn't had any sound after installation. More inexperienced user could be in trouble because of that. I heard some others have had same problem too.



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Which games? I've run Wipeout no problem; I wasn't too interested in other old games. I'm still working on MiniGL (the OS 4.1 version was a beta) so if you have any issues with 3D (not for old 68k/WarpOS games though), please let me know.


As I said, with old Amiga games/demos. I'm interested backwards compatibility and that's why I haven't tried new OS4 native 3D stuff that much. Almost all games started, but had some graphical problems. Wipeout works best, but not perfectly. Transparencies doesn't seem to work in it. For example on screen texts and graphics have boxed background when it should be transparent. Payback has all gfx broken. Shogo has working 2D gfx, but 3D gfx only gives some weird red lines. Encore's demos ran, but 3D gfx was misplaced or missing in many parts. I don't remember now all things I've tried, but I could do better report some other day with better time.
Daily MorphOS user and Amiga active.
 

Offline pVC

Re: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2008, 04:57:45 PM »
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What exactly do you mean with consistency to the system and programs? If you mean that there's only one set of themes to edit, then I agree; if you're talking about the look and feel, Reaction and MUI have been setup to give the same look and feel.


I mean that there isn't too many GUI toolkits in use. It's nice that system and programs use same ways for their configurations and operation. Even for global settings. As there is much more old programs using MUI than Reaction, it gives more consistency IMHO.
Daily MorphOS user and Amiga active.
 

Offline pVC

Re: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2008, 05:00:06 PM »
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I have seen screenshots from new WB 4.1 listers but I doubt it still comes even close. Ambient is simply too far ahead right now.


Yep, WB4.1 listers don't have Ambient kind of functionality at all in current state.
Daily MorphOS user and Amiga active.
 

Offline pVC

Re: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2008, 05:42:28 PM »
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xeron wrote:
Actually, a few of your claims are wildly inaccurate, as has been pointed out, but if you want to still believe that, for example, OWB is still a "simple SDL recompile" because it makes you feel all warm and snuggly about how superior MorphOS is, rather than actually researching your arguments, thats up to you.


About that browser situation. I like Sputnik being MUI-based, but OWB seems to render pages better. For example the google maps. I haven't tested either properly as they both are still unfinished. Still using Ibrowse as my main browser. But OWB surely is nice addon to Amiga scene nevertheless.

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The other thing I disagreed with was where pVC claimed that OS4's prefs were inconsistent; all OS4 prefs modules are compiled against a common preferences framework. Where any two prefs have the same functionality, it will be in the exact same place. They also all use the same GUI toolkit. Where they differ, its because they are showing preferences for different things. The only prefs editor I can think of that is really different is GUI prefs, where it uses a lister instead of tabs, but really, it has so many options that would be unwieldy. But the GUI prefs is really for "pro" users, most people just use pre-defined skins.


I have difficulties to find correct prefs programs for wanted setting, but that's same on OS3.9 too. But now there's even more settings. I think that for example printer prefs could have been combined to one place. There's also network settings in two places (in prefs drawer and in sys). GUI prefs is messy and looks pretty much taken from VisualPrefs style instead of making it OS4 style. Then there's Picasso96Mode, which differs completely from everything else. Some prefs have only couple of choises while others might have massive amount of stuff.

And then all prefs programs are in same dir without any order. You have to look through lots of separate prefs names when you're looking for user interface settings for example. In MorphOS they're all in their own categories. It's lot easier when you're looking for certain type of settings.

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One thing you have to remember is that MorphOS had a big head start in development time to OS4, and there was a time when OS4 was quite far behind, and now it is only a bit behind in some areas. In fact, in some cases MorphOS has caught up to OS4 (64bit filesystems, TCP/IP etc).

The thing is, in a lot of areas where OS4 used to be behind, it has caught up, and development hasn't slowed a bit. It is unusual if there arent updates to the beta version every single day. IMHO, on the areas where OS4 still is behind, it won't be long before it catches up. A lot of the weak points pointed out in this thread are being worked on.


I thought the question was to compare MorphOS2 to OS4.1 in the current state from the regular user's point of view :) And in that context OS4.1 seems to be far behind in many important areas from user point of view again. MorphOS is also developing rapidly. There's constant development (even betas available (newer than in 2.1)) with MUI4 and Ambient. MorphOS 2.2 is coming soon (some components of it are also obtainable if needed) etc. I would be surprised if there would be major change in Workbench vs. Ambient functionality in near future for example, but feel free to prove my thoughts wrong :)


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Another thing about MorphOS that I found was that it seemed pretty much dead to me. The forums on morphzone are very quiet, and there never seemed to be all that much software written for MorphOS, outside of the occasional AmigaZeux release and a couple of other devs. Whereas there is often new or updated software to download for OS4, and the OS4 web forums are much livelier places.


I guess that also depends where your focus is. Ok, MorphZone could be more active, but also there isn't that much useless hype and speculation about MorphOS than on OS4. It's more facts and real issues. Also OS4 forums have classic Amiga talks etc, which are missing on MorphOS sites.

And for programs, I think there's lots of nice releases regularly. Nice game ports, one of the latest is Homeworld for example. One pick could also be MPlayer, which just got MUI-GUI module and I'd say it's the best movie player around. On MorphOS version everything works after you unpack the archive. Even subtitles work fine ootb, which have been problem even on Win/Linux in my experience. ShowGirls is absolutely great picture viewer/editor. Never seen such great program on any platform.. and many more, but I'm out of time for today now :)
Daily MorphOS user and Amiga active.
 

Offline pVC

Re: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2008, 05:56:58 PM »
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Hans_ wrote:
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pVC wrote:
With very limited testing I could guess it depends about the size of mass storage device too. 2GB stick doesn't show up instantly, but lot faster than 250GB drive. When I plug that 250GB drive in, first it doesn't seem to happen anything. With my very first try I had time to start looking mounter program, because I thought it doesn't automount. Then there appears uninitialized icon on desktop and finally it changes to correct drive icon and I can use the drive. Also I had problem to get memory stick to work when having several devices plugged... or maybe I just didn't have patience to wait enough.


Part of the problem could be lack of USB 2.0 support, although the delay that you talk about sounds too long to be just about slow transfer rates (12 Mb/s or whatever USB 1's limit is, should still be able to transfer 1 MiB/s).


I don't know. It's instant on Pegasos when trying with USB1.1 controller too.

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The main background is blue with a boing-ball, etc. To be honest, I can't remember what the window backgrounds were because I changed that to my personal preference right away. I just don't remember the default being yellowish at all, especially not in the prefs programs.


Main background is fine with boingball, but the window backgrounds.

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Fair enough. It would be ridiculously easy to collect the blankers and pointers and put them on the CD though.


The blankers itself isn't the issue, but these things in complete and what feeling and impression they give to user who has bought or is going to buy the product. It doesn't give very modern look if the only blankers are only some 80's line blankers.

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Well that explains why I didn't see that, I don't use dial-up any more.


I don't either. I used static ethernet addresses. It outputted couple of lines eth3com things.

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Out of curiosity, which sound card are you using? My SBLive's default values were fine.


SBLive (CT4830).

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What graphics card do you have? Transparency works fine in Wipeout on my card (Radeon 9000 pro).


I've tested it with 8500LE and 9250.
Daily MorphOS user and Amiga active.
 

Offline pVC

Re: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2008, 03:11:38 PM »
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Matt_H wrote:
What I thought to be the latest version of MPlayer on OS4 (from November of last year) is a crashy mess. Is there a newer version kicking around anywhere?

I like DVPlayer (I'm a registered user), but it just doesn't handle everything. That's why I like having both around.


I haven't found later version of MPlayer either. And that version sucks pretty much. OSD texts and subtitles are flashy and aspect ratio is lost in full screen etc.

I also haven't registered DVPlayer, so it doesn't play much here. How does it handle xvids etc? What it haven't handled on you?

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On a partially-related note, could you talk a bit more about the new features in 4.1? It seems like not many details beyond the press release and "It's better" have made it out. Not a huge deal, as I will get 4.1 eventually, but in the meantime I'm just curious.


Yeah, I'm missing detailed information on that too. MorphOS has pretty comprehensive pages about those things (www.morphos-team.net).

BTW. here are screenshots of installing both systems and some after install pics too: for AmigaOS4.1 and for MorphOS2.0
Daily MorphOS user and Amiga active.
 

Offline pVC

Re: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2008, 03:23:51 PM »
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hooligan wrote:
Do you guys think there is a website for Lamborghini- and Ferrariowners to debate which carbrand is better? :-)


Yes. I surely would like to do some comparison before going to buy expensive car. And I don't think those Lamborghini and Ferrari owners would be any less passionate about their cars than we are with out operating systems :) You should look some dog or diet forums for real fanaticism, for example ;)
Daily MorphOS user and Amiga active.
 

Offline pVC

Re: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2008, 03:59:35 PM »
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JJ wrote:
Where is the default horible yellow theme  in AOS4.1 then ?


In any prefs window there? Or if you say that it isn't yellowish, then I have to blame my monitor :) Anyway it doesn't look good here IMHO. And especially with combination of those red and purple things.

Ok, I checked RGB values of those backgrounds, because it came this big question :) And it really seems to be bit leaning to yellow side. Only a bit, but maybe my monitor shows it too clearly. In any case I would like more some other color scheme.
Daily MorphOS user and Amiga active.
 

Offline pVC

Re: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2008, 04:16:00 PM »
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hooligan wrote:
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rzookol wrote:
about 2000 mos users (145 and 2.x)


Where are they lurking?


Enjoying their systems without useless babble? :)

For example, I have several Pegasos owning friends here in the same city, but I'm the only one being loud at the net :)
Daily MorphOS user and Amiga active.