FS: Blizzard 2060

[arkanoid]

reflect wrote:Let's not get this out of hand, hm? The original comment was underhanded, it wasn't appropriate. Later there was some heated feelings, but now it's just getting silly.

reflect: Ok, so maybe it was wrong to say he might have another account. That was baseless speculation by me.

But he does have one known Amibay account and I think it's good that it has been frozen, just on the grounds that he obviously does not agree with Amibay's idea on fair prices. Unless, of course he's buying.

[arkanoid]

-D- wrote:

arkanoid wrote:

The fact that Redromola is a trader and even has an account on Amibay probably means he'd have no problem buying things cheaply at those "community prices" he's mocked in this very thread.

 :roll:

Yes, reread it, it's flawless logic.  :roll:

Which is probably why Merlin has frozen his Amibay account.

[arkanoid]

-D- wrote:

arkanoid wrote:

-D- wrote:

arkanoid wrote:

The fact that Redromola is a trader and even has an account on Amibay probably means he'd have no problem buying things cheaply at those "community prices" he's mocked in this very thread.

 :roll:

Yes, reread it, it's flawless logic.  :roll:

Which is probably why Merlin has frozen his Amibay account.

Red buys things for pennies on amibay and sells them for huge profits??? :lol: Foaming a bit on this one, eh?

Everyone slips up, has bad days, says things maybe they shouldn't have... boo-hoo. I could understand if Red had a questionable history,  but he's proven himself to be an honest seller THOUSANDS of times over. (Let me repeat that -THOUSANDS- of happy transactions.) Like him or not whatever, criticize a comment, sure, but to jump all over his character is simply laughable!

Well, he's either in the business of making profit from Amiga wares, or he isn't. You can't have it both ways. Despite what you say, I think he's made it clear that his only concern is making money from Amiga sales. With that in mind, are you saying he doesn't buy things cheaper and then sell them on? He obviously does, else he's a piss-poor "business man".

So my (and other's) point is that he shouldn't be allowed to have any influence on a site (Amibay) setup SPECIFICALLY to counteract greed driven Amiga sales. As has already been pointed out, there's a conflict of interests there and I'm really glad the Amibay mods see that! Besides that, and more to the point of this thread, his commercially driven comments (such as "waaaaay tooo cheap") in a thread where a sale is taking place between genuine enthusiasts (whose main concern may not be hiking prices up to the absolute maximum) are NOT welcome. We all know exactly why he found this thread's sale item "waaaay too cheap".

Nobody has said Red is a "bad trader", I have no idea if he is or if he isn't. But really, that's not the point of people's concern here. What I do know, is that he's blatantly honest, perhaps to a fault. He's so honest that he's let us all know that any involvement he has in Amiga trades and any comment he makes is based purely on how much profit can be made. For people who view their Amiga as a passionate hobby (as I think most of us do), and in a lot of ways a place we can all escape from the crap that comes along with modern systems dictated by capitalism and money - his take on the Amiga community is complete crap!

And to top it off, he's a moderator on one of the "communiy's" largest and most influential sites. To me, that's almost sinful.

And by the way, the attitude Red has displayed in this thread is no "slip up". When you make slipups, you apologize. When you think you're justified and cannot see why people are so upset, you stubbornly continue with the same line - as he has done.

[arkanoid]

As far as im aware, Amigakit have never posted comments in a thread encouraging price hiking between enthusiasts. They quietly get on with their business in a professional manner.

Don't worry, it's nothing personal. I'm pretty certain Amigakit would get as much stick if they pulled the same stunt. It's nothing to do with WHO has done it, it's what has been done and what that person's motives are.

[arkanoid]

RRunner: Your interwebs experience must be pretty dull if you never get into heated discussions now and then about stuff. And who's to say what's important and what isn't? Are you the Official Arbitrator of Intraweb Topical Debate, or something? If so, where's your badge? I demand to see it!   :-)

I think this particular topic is pretty topical, as far as Amiga-community related discussions go And after all this is an Amiga community website.

Eat your pop-corn and don't be such a spoil sport - you know you're loving it!   :-)

[arkanoid]

tone007, doctorq, ZeBeeDee, and whoever else it may concern:

The funniest thing is, if you guys were not on this cheerleader-like crusade to paint Redromola as some kind of martyr over this issue, you might actually see that the essence of what myself and others (such as ffstrack, Save2600, etc) were actually saying was in favour of YOUR right to choose exactly what YOU, as a seller, wanted to charge for your items - without the fear of having some cretin rear his ugly little head in the middle of your FS thread questioning your prices.

You guys are narrowing your blinkered focus on a few choice words which were basically used to PROVE Redromola's motives behind shouting out "waaaay too cheap". I can see the tactic, and how it benefits your Red-crusade, but common - it's pretty deceitful and low. In other words, yes, the word "capitalist" was used to label him, because he is a self-confessed Amiga capitalist and THAT was (as he himself admitted) HIS reason/motivation for making the initial comment he made. We couldn't exactly say: "hey Red, your reasons for your uncalled for comment were Communistic" or benevolent non-commercial socialism now, could we? We'd have to save the "socialist" label for someone who shouted "waaaay tooo high!!" - obviously.

Capitalism was given as a REASON for Red's comment and that reason does not excuse him attempting to price-hike a sale between enthusiasts, now does it? By the same token, favouring "community pricing" does not give you any more moral high ground to shout "way to expensive", imo.

And, just to prove my point, here is a quote from a post I made in this thread where a user was saying the exact polar opposite of Redrumola's, basically he said: "waaaay to cheap!!" and I had a few choice words to say to him also:-

   "wurzel: I suggest you get your calculator out, do your sums and add up the going rate for the components included in the system. the individual components alone will add up to not far off his £950 asking price. and when you figure in eBay/PayPal fees and the amount of work that has obviously gone into building the system - it's not that far off the mark.

    why do people hate to see regular people make a little money? it's not this guy's fault that you're broke."

I assure you, if I had my way you could charge exactly what you wanted (hiking your prices beyond all known limits - if you wish!) and never have to hear another "waaaay too much!!!" again. But I guess that will never happen, because by you defending Red's actions and purposefully misconstruing the MAIN point of people's concern in this thread, trolls will forever feel the "right" to give their unwelcomed opinion on what YOU are or aren't charging for YOUR items - in the full knowledge that that "right" will be backed and defended by the "community".

Unless, as I suspect, the only people who actually get defended on this topic are moderators and people who are "liked", or who have posted "99.9% interesting threads about Minimig projects". Childish, you're not children and you shouldn't have to agree with EVERY action a person makes just because you "like" them.

- happy days!

[arkanoid]

LoadWB: yes, I believe...somehow through all the mania, Save2600 managed to purchase it. And I dont think red's comment swayed Christian, so he didn't charge double :-)

[arkanoid]

ZeBeeDee: I like typing, it varies the workout I give my fingers - besides the nightly five-knuckle shuffle.

However, I think you guys are going to give me RSI from having to repeat the same crap over and over...  :crazy:

[arkanoid]

 :lol:

but it's REALLY hard. you guys keep pushing my buttons with your one sided comments...
but I'm going to try harder now...honest

MUST

RESIST!!!

[arkanoid]

Sig999:

I've put ZeBeeDees button on my wall...and I'm not going to press it!!

[arkanoid]

Plaz wrote:

However it's come to a quiet spot where I might make a suggestion.... Could we agree to leave the FS and FA threads to the sellers and interested buyers? Maybe even make a board policy about it?

I'm not sure if a board policy is practical or even necessary. I would guess all it really takes is for most users to adopt a similar stance on the matter and begin informing the people making the "that's waaay too cheap" or "that's waaay to expensive" remarks that their behaviour is unacceptable. After a while, the price-whiners will get the message and the unwritten rule will be that you do not pass judgement on people's pricing.

I mean, people just want to buy and sell their stuff and, like you say, people have different ideas on both what to charge and pay. Long gone are the days of RRP for classic Amiga items, so who really has any right to pass judgement. It's not on and it seems that almost every FS thread these days has someone at it.

But, on the other hand, perhaps a written rule somewhere would help make the idea more concrete. You've seen for yourself just how divided people are on this one.

[arkanoid]

Sig999 wrote:

Good - then you can understand MY opinion that a bunch of folks were being grossly unfair to someone else.

...

Or lets put it in a more real light: I watch a person get punched at a bar - Do I become drinking buds with the guy who threw it, based on the 'fact' that it wasn't me?
Or do I look at the way they treat others a pretty good indication of how I myself would be treated?

Do I go back a week later and shake his hand and sit next to him?

No - when someone shows their nature to you, you take note of it.  As for anger or emotions or any of other excuse... well.. again - I put a side note that they can't control them - I don't take it as a justification.  The bigger man in THIS situation would walk rather than let that happen.

Your mileage may vary - but hey - thats life.

*shrug*  But I'm not even remotely connected to anyone making pricing quips, or disparaging remarks about someones ethics, nor passing comment or judgement on anyones idea of community, fair pricing, or free market.

And as such - trying to use MY character to shadow earlier goings on in this thread won't make the air fresher either.
It's not MY attitude that brought this about is it?

If there's nothing to add to the actual topic at hand - then my conversation with you is over.

What a pathetically inappropriate and contrived analogy. You might be in control of your emotions and anger, but you clearly are not in control of your hyperbolic emotives. Although I guess it served its function of plucking people's heart strings by equating two totally unequal acts. ie: the act on one hand of people simply giving a person their honest opinions (and perhaps one or two going a little over the top), and on the other hand a wild and crazy drunkard physically battering an innocent man in a bar. I'm surprised you didn't give the attacker a double barrelled shotgun and end with the victims guts sprawled on the dance flaw. well, done, but not very subtle and I think the gross inappropriateness of it and its obvious aim proves you're far from impartial.

Ever considered that most people were not "drinking with me" and merely stating their OWN independent opinion on the matter? What makes you think I wield more influence over the community than an already more popular (by far) moderator and respected trader? Another low-down reverse psychology trick. you seem to have quite a few.

There were a lot of people in that thread giving Red grief for what he done, all coming from different angles - some lower than others (many a lot lower than myself) but _most_ basically saying the same thing: "keep you nose out of sales between individuals and do not price hike!" And I think that's well and truly justified. Yes. Redromola's been around forums long enough to know _exactly_ what to do in those situations: show a little humility and at least hint that you may have been in the wrong. He didn't do that and so began the barrage. I'm pretty sure even you can see that and appreciate just how much that failure and his persistent rebuttals of "I don't give a crap - capitalism rules, you could have got twice for that!" and then simply walking away (as out of some higher morally justified principle) contributed to the heavy handedness he received.

but if you wish to paint him as the proverbial bar brawl victim, be my guest. you will get no real resistance from me as I've outwinded even myself on this one. And it's getting boring have people drag up the myopic intricacies of my delivery, rather than face the central and only real issue: that of nosey people interfering in other people's FS threads.

[arkanoid]

JJ: I for one would be happy with that. As I can't seem to just shutup, what with having the finger continually pointed in this direction. But, regardless, this is the ABSOLUTE final time I even bother to read this thread.