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Author Topic: Will you be buying an AmigaOne X1000 ?  (Read 58529 times)

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Offline Amiga_Nut

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Re: Will you be buying an AmigaOne X1000 ?
« on: September 30, 2010, 01:11:58 PM »
You know what, I wanted an AmigaONE in the past but never enough made to purchase them freely. Performance/price was bearable on that.

I think given the time that has elapsed and because OS4 only uses one core and no multi-threading the x1000 max price for a complete solution needs to be under £1000 simple as that. If this was the price I would get one because as a business user the security would be nice....unlike PCs which get ass raped as soon as you plug em into the net. And Apple is overpriced shite.

The machine is not the problem, the price is. Had they had the intelligence to just partner with IBM and get a Xenon 3.2ghz based solution (the CPU would have cost them peanuts and IBM NOT Microsoft own the rights to Xenon as in the Xbox360) things would be OK at even at £1500.

Mac users pay a premium for a variation of Linux with mild enhancements, I see nothing wrong in wanting a super fast OS4 machine. SAM and others are lame ducks as far as CPU speed goes and are also 200% overpriced IMO.
 

Offline Amiga_Nut

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Re: Will you be buying an AmigaOne X1000 ?
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2010, 03:09:40 PM »
Quote from: Piru;582148
Due to circumstances that cannot be repeated in today's world. The market is way too saturated these days for any new small player to bring anything really new and revolutionary to to playground. Even if you tried you'd be ground to dust in seconds by the large megacorporations, or just bought out and the good parts being incorporated in their own products.

The best you can do is to try concentrate on the software and run in on someone else's HW. You can build a reasonable niche there, still.


If that was true then the xbox360 would have a Quad Core Intel CPU and cost the same as a 2007 PC capable of running games @ 60FPS in 1920x1080...clearly they didn't and it doesn't

There is no substitute for genius design and clued up entrepreneurs fronting the cash.

Sure Commodore was a massive company in the mid 80s but Amiga was off the shelf tech bought in. Ditto if the makers of X1000 had a realistic business plan they only had to do 2 things.

1. Secure the services of IBM as an advisor on how to use the shit hot Xenon 3.2Ghz PPC compatible CPU

2. Hire some tech geniuses to understand roughly how the Xbox 360 motherboard works.

So in essence they would be doing what Commodore did, take a shit hot chipset and make a damned fine state of the art PC using those components that blew EVERYTHING out of the water in 1985/86.

This didn't happen, we got the luke warm X1000 idea, and it's doomed to sell a few thousand at best.

Now the real question is....is it fair to blame PC tech or Apple marketing here? No the simple fact is lack of intelligence = X1000 and not a $500 Xbox360 exceeding chipset on a motherboard that would have led to a computer selling possibly a million @ $500/£400.

It certainly is impossible to replicate the days of A1000, but is not impossible to replicate the days of Sega Megadrive/Genesis £200 vs A500 £450ish in 1988/89.

So I don't buy that X86 on OS4 was the only option (who's writing the millions of obscure drivers for every PC in the world?) and AROS IS AmigaOS on x86...support that one.

And I wouldn't want a Mac logo on a machine I run OS4 on so they better include a huge sticker to cover that shit if selling OS4 + PPC Mac in some future timeline.
 

Offline Amiga_Nut

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Re: Will you be buying an AmigaOne X1000 ?
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2010, 03:18:21 PM »
Quote from: Kesa;582307
OK i'll rephrase that. Swap quality for pride. After watching trevor on youtube talking about the x1000 it's the first time i have considered buying an ng amiga. For me the sams and the pegasus were soulless but the x1000 clearly has emotion put into it so i want a part of it.

To this day when i touch my a500 i feel pride but when i bought my quad core 2 months ago i threw it on the table and switched it on and i didn't give a damn about it. It will be a relief to pick up an amiga again and feel pride.


That's nostalgia, nothing more. Stick an X1000 on a desk and a top of the range i7 (costing less) on the table and see what today's generation prefer....the machine that can play Call of Duty 4 or one that can run Final Writer 97 or some less than perfect web browser?

People don't care, X1000 gives them no reason to care (it costs more and does less than a PC) and Microsoft haters are rare in people buying their first PC nowadays.

You need to give people a reason to buy an X1000, either it must be superior to the alternative in every way to justify the price OR it must take design cues from something like the Xbox360 motherboard and from that $99 set of components build a machine that plays PS3/Xbox360 quality games @ 1080p AND cost half way between an actual Xbox360 and a PC capable of DX10 @ 1080p in 60FPS non-stop.

THIS is why A500 sold by the bucket load (and C64 too I guess) the x86 competition was too expensive* and the consoles were only consoles with expensive carts and no other abilities.

*(Yes you can buy some piece of shit for £400 now with gigs or ram and HD but they all come with crippled graphics and won't even run DX9 games at 720p with a kick up the ass, gaming rigs equalling 360/PS3 quality cost about 1000+ and without a monitor.....remember Win7 piece of shit needs a couple of Ghz to run alone let alone the same code as is being pushed through on the 360/PS3 code lol)
 

Offline Amiga_Nut

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Re: Will you be buying an AmigaOne X1000 ?
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2010, 01:03:14 AM »
Quote from: Piru;582365
Microsoft chose PowerPC because they could get full control of the chip (and for instance embed security features inside it... making it much harder to crack the console). That was not possible with intel or AMD. Original Xbox was cracked almost instantly and it meant major losses due to piracy.


You're forgetting something: You can't just hack something like this (computer HW business introducing a new platform) up from our garage anymore. It takes capital, lots of it. Back in the day it was possible to (literally!) start your business from a garage... I argue that this isn't possible anymore.

How would you go on and sell this idea to VCs? New game console? New desktop? What would bring them the profits for their investment?

And btw, game consoles are cheap because they're sold at a loss. The income comes from the game sales.


Microsoft went to IBM and asked for a CPU within a price range with a minimum performance that's all, which they decided they could provide thanks to CELL processor development work.

This was all confirmed from a contact who deals directly with Microsoft on a daily basis and specifically Xbox360 for licensing things like the visualizer and his 2 games released as full price titles I believe him wholeheartedly when he explains Microsoft went to IBM and IBM used half the research into CELL already subsidised by Sony/Toshiba to create Xenon. This is not based on Wikipedia bollox.

Xenon is 100% owned by IBM due to complaints and legal threats from Sony/Toshiba too.

So you have a situation exactly the same as in 1988 with Amiga A500 vs Sega Genesis/Megadrive. Both machines use the same CPU, and not some crap like the 65816 from WDC like in the pathetically slow SNES, and one costs 2.5x more than the other. The Megadrive was subsidised with £50 games too. The 360 motherboard may well be subsidised but it is still a cheap nasty device which is why it is $200 console not $450 like PS3. Even without subsidy the motherboard essentials are still going to come in at under $250...clearly a massive improvement on $1200 for a GPU devoid weird G5 based mobo used by x1000

The more things change the more they stay the same, my comment was merely if someone was serious about creating a true next gen OS4 platform then the only viable option is to use the 3.2Ghz Xenon CPU and to 'investigate' how Microsoft harness the power, the full price of which is still under $250 which is significantly cheaper than i7 solutions in x86-64 world. Creating the GLUE logic to make an ATI GPU and Xenon and RAM work is not costly or difficult and like I said the option is always there to hire IBM consultants to help as and when required.

It is VERY possible for a new spiritual successor of Amiga to exist, but it takes talent, insight, a rewrite of OS4 and substantially huge balls of solid iron to venture into such a business. Would not be expensive as Xenon is significantly cheaper than i7 due to the rate at which IBM has been producing them for the last 4 years either. Not the A1000 though, like I said more of the 1988 Sega Megadrive vs Amiga A500 kind of level of price/performance/compromise level. Had such design choices been made you could easily have got 1080p gaming rig performance for less than i7 PC gaming rig prices. (Apple are always overpriced and no games for it so forget those).

PC-AT/XT vs A500 vs Sega 16bit console is no different to xbox360 type tech on a desktop machine vs xbox360 vs PC x86-64. Where is the problem? None except for lack of vision. Never going to happen I agree, but the reason why a seriously powerful box to run OS4 on one of its cores at 3.2ghz doesn't exist isn't really a technical issue. Xenon is dirt cheap, ATI GPUs cost peanuts in bulk, basic engineering skill to stick it all together on a custom mobo are plentiful amongst talented graduates etc.

And as I stated before, x1000 is fine if all people want is the fastest OS4 box money can buy, not great value for money and OS4 has its problems too hence my 'pass' on a potential purchase.