Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86

[EDanaII]

Not to speak for the Leander, but... those of us who criticize the X1000 are not criticizing your choice. We're criticizing AEon/Hyperions choice to not grow the user base.

Two cents.

[EDanaII]

@ HenryCase

If you want to grow the user-base, then you have to bring the price down to a level a majority of (potential) users are willing to pay. Just because the Sam is the lower end of the price range does not mean it's the price that a majority will pay for. Bring cost of ownership down to about 300$ and I'm in -- but I suspect I'm on the lowest end. This will grow the user-base considerably. A price range of 800$ to 2000$ will not do it.

While the price level of the X1000 might be out of AEon's control, choice of hardware is not. I'm in the x86 camp and computers can be found that would bring the price down below 800$. I've also argued that "if it must be PPC, then xBox, Wii or PS3." The choice of this hardware + OS would also bring the cost down to a more reasonable range and have a better chance of growing the base.

Cold hard fact: the Amiga, despite it's superiority way back when, is a _failed_ computer. Trying to reintroduce such a machine at "caviar" prices when it has "little nutritional value" is just foolish. If you've failed in your career and are restarting it, you don't begin it again by selling yourself at the highest wage possible.

[EDanaII]

@ Lou Dias

Ironically, you are addressing (possibly) the only other Amiga/Fiero enthusiast here, Lou. I'm the proud and original owner of a 1988 4cyl standard Fiero. I listed those stats because, as fond as I am of the Fiero, I was unwilling to pay for anything better than that. The more expensive models didn't get me down the road any better than my humble model and the gas mileage was by far better.

And the more expensive X1000 isn't going to compute any better for me than this 500$ Lenovo SL510 I'm currently typing on. So, as fond as I am of Amiga -- my presence here should indicate that -- I'm unwilling to pay 2k for something that I can only, at present, do less on. And I doubt I'm the only one here. 2k for the _illusion_ of better is still an illusion. ("Look mom! The emperor isn't wearing any clothes!")

These rules still apply to an enthusiast market and the Amiga market as they always have.


@ HenryCase:

How do you propose they bring down the price down to $300 for a new machine? This isn't a console market where the hardware can be sold at a loss, and mass market hardware is cheap because it's produced in bulk. I'm sure you know this already, which is why I'm surprised that the 'make it cheaper' is constantly brought up as a solution, it's obvious why the price is high.

First off, I stated that 300$ was my price and that I was probably in the lowest echelon. So, let's compromise and bring the price up a little higher. How about 400$? That's a reasonable price, on par with what's available, reflecting the Amiga's reputations as a failed platform. So, with that as our baseline, it's not that hard to fill. Steve at ClusterUK managed it. Yes, I know AROS is free, but at least Steve is funneling funds back to AROS development.

And then, there's models like this:
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=bv1cs3ao&cs=04&dgvcode=ss&c=US&l=EN&dgc=SS&cid=52103&lid=1342491
Or this:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Compaq+-+Presario+Desktop+/+AMD+Athlon%26%23153%3B+II+Processor+/+2GB+Memory+/+500GB+Hard+Drive/1254175.p?skuId=1254175&ky=1whxm51gbOgORrn6M8JOUlLjDtR0yY7Rx&cmp=RMX&id=1218243229976
Or even this:
http://netbookprice.net/price-comparison/acer-aspire-one-532h-2588/

Add 150$ to those models and you still have a pretty reasonably priced (and performing) system. All Hyperion has to do is pick one and support it.

If you have a solution, then I'm sure they'll be all ears. x86 isn't an option because OS4 hasn't been ported to x86 (and if they do make an x86 port, expect them to pass on the cost to the Amiga user, who won't be able to afford it and then it's goodnight Vienna), and old Mac hardware will only get you so far (haven't seen a massive increase in the MorphOS user base yet).

But that's where you're wrong. x86 *IS* an option, it's just not the best option given the hole that Hyperion has dug themselves into. Still, getting out of that hole and digging a better one (more likely to find water) is better than just digging the current dry hole deeper.

But, as Kolla has already stated: "I would recommend doing what the MorphOS developers did - that is, release OS4 for old powerpc macs." To which I'll add, I just invested in a used PowerMac (150$), when I invest in MorphOS (150$) then the cost of ownership will be: 300$. Which is more than Hyperion is going to get from me. 2 grand is a whole month's worth of living; I ain't giving it up that easily.

And, as I've already pointed out: "if it must be PPC, then xBox, Wii or PS3." Lessee... Wii is 200$, so we're talking minimum price of ownership: 350$ and, I dunno... through in a keyboard and mouse for an additional 20?

The options are there even if people don't want to hear them.


@ Karlos

[Raises hand.]

AROS might be free and it has come a long way, but it still needs a lot of polishing. The kind of polishing that would have likely happened if it were a professionally supported OS.

[EDanaII]

Concerning the Wii, a fair point, but I still consider it viable. I'm making the assumption it could be hacked. Same is true for the PS3 as I recall some have already hacked Sony's closed door back open. And, of course, I could care less about the "irony" of the Xbox.

Regarding MorphOS, I already like it. I'm using the crippled (non-registered) version. I haven't sprung for the official version yet because I've had the PowerMac for only three weeks and have used it (the Mac) for, maybe, 90 minutes. Still playing... but it is nice and responsive. The only obstacle here is software... but if MorphOS can move enough PowerMacs over to them, software will come. The only question is: how many PowerMacs do they need to move?


@ Karlos

Nope. It's never been on that presumption. However, I've been advocating Amiga on x86 since the Amithlon days. And Amithlon managed to run a large portion of m68k applications (that didn't bang the hardware) without too much issue. So claiming this as an obstacle (including the big/little endian argument) is a little dubious IMHO. As to the PPC legacy stuff? So, if the boat is leaky and threatening to sink, we should stick with it because a couple of guys over there still like it? I hate to be harsh but... maybe we should just find a better boat?

[EDanaII]

I won't tell if you don't, Lou.

You know, I've often played with the idea of getting a v8 Archie for my humble little machine, but... (steering back on topic) ...the price is too much for me despite the 0 to 60 in 4 seconds thrill it would give me.

(Oh, and I've actually mentioned the Fiero to you before, you just never noticed it. I recognize your sign on from Pennock's as well.


@ HenryCase

I'm not proposing anything, Henry. I'm merely laying out the case for Hyperion's survival. Build the X1000, stagnate and likely die. Switch to commodity hardware, grow the user base and have a chance at survival. I fully realize this is a "Kobiyashi Maru" scenario for Hyperion, but of the two scenarios: expensive or cheap only one of them gives the greater chance for survival.

And, yes, I realize that my scenarios are less than perfect but, once again, they still have a greater chance of growing the user base. This should be Hyperion's main priority.