Amiga vs PC

[amigaksi]

@ amigaksi


I use Win7 x64. and i run VMWare. and i run Win98se. and play diablo, quite well i must say. I also run dosbox. in win7 X64. and play old 16bit dos games, and it works quite well.
I have not tried UAE yet. but i bet ya a dollar it works just fine. Then i can play most amiga games on my win7 x64 install.

Looks like VMWare also requires installing the older OS as well as VMWare itself which doesn't look like freeware.

Partition hard drives afterwards?
Exactly what do you mean by that?
I run the same disks with the same partitions as i did with xp. (some disks even W2K) I have just reformatted them with an updated version of ntfs, or converted them on the fly.

I need to run 16-bit and 32-bit software that works on Windows 3.x like Photoshop and most of my stuff.  Windows 98SE and XP run my software fine but not 64-bit Windows.  One proposed solutions were partition the hard drive, but that also still requires installing/buying Windows 3.x OS and head-ache repartitioning for customers that may not be so technically inclined.  They basically went and bought a new computer and told me my software no longer works.  Unfortunately, they bought a machine with a 64-bit OS.

Is it the OSs fault that some retailers don't include the OS disks?

What compatibillity has been dropped?
I still use old software. Name some REALLY usefull old software that don't work under win7 x64.

Yes, it's the OS's fault that there was no solution given to run old software that doesn't need any upgrade or newer OS features to run with full functionality.  The fact of the matter is, when I benchmark my software on Windows 98SE w/64MB and Windows XP w/1GB RAM, it runs better on Windows 98SE.

The certification referred to in previous post is certification of drivers. If someone want to have certified drivers, they must make both 32 and 64bit drivers for their hardware. Uncertified drivers still works, though.

Yeah, most uncertified drivers like belkin WIFI still work but those dialog boxes sure try to create doubt in people's minds with messages like: "WARNING: Press continue to install, but if your hard drive crashes or monitor blows up, don't tell us."

[amigaksi]

This is so true.

I guess it's easier to say "we don't need it" than "you're right, it would be great, but we don't have it now, that's too bad". Seems like some people still live in 1989, thinking the Amiga is still cutting edge in a lot of areas... Problem is it's 2010, and it's lagging in pretty much every areas instead.

Not true for me in 1989.  I had an Atari 800, Amiga 500, and AT&T 286 w/LAN card connecting to my college VAX (sort of like internet).  Each one had their uniqueness-- the math processing (microcap?) and communications were better on the 286 as it had a math coprocessor, the Amiga 500 had the unique Copper (amongst other things), and the Atari 800 had fast booting cartridges and programmable text/gr. modes in BASIC.  

Now the PC has progressed a lot, but nonetheless some aspects of the older machines remain unique.  Just like a parrot is inferior to a human yet has some unique features like ability to fly and it's colorfulness.

[amigaksi]

Not sure what all this is about.  I'm using a 2.8 GHz Dual Core running Windows 7 Pro 64 Bit. I was abit surprised, but Mechwarrior 4 runs just fine. That was released on November 24, 2000. Almost 11 years ago. No compatibility mode.

I just build a new computer for a friend this Spring to replace her 7 year old Dell. The new computer is slightly better than mine. Same OS. I installed all the software that was on her old computer. A good bit of it was from 1995 to 2000 release programs. All of it ran, no issues, no comparability mode.

After trying some more Windows software the past week or so:

Windows 64-bit runs ZERO programs from Windows 3.x whether 16-bit or 32-bit.  I have tried Photoshop 3.x, all of my software, etc.  This is not some I/O port stuff which can have problems due to newer OSes blocking and checking every I/O port call, but even API-only stuff.  So what was once a big thing about PCs-- compatibility is no longer true.  Obviously, they got rid of real-mode DOS as well since Windows 2000, but they did emulate the DOS calls and some I/O ports in the command prompt.  Mechwarrior must have been a 32-bit Win 95/98 program.  These also have issues, but many of them run.

[amigaksi]

Why would anyone posting to this thread take themselves too seriously?

Those who insist on defending the idea that original Amigas are a potential alternative to modern computers:

I only use PCs for internet these days.  My computer time is split between Atari/Amigas (80%) and PCs (20%).  So if something had to go, PC would go.  If someone's work was just computing math stuff that is supported by a calculator, he doesn't need to use a power-hungry and bigger PC for the task.  Perhaps, we should stop using calculators since they don't run at 3Ghz or stop using those Nintendo DSi which use a pretty slow processor.

The world REALLY is flat!

We never went to the moon.

Those are debatable, but someone can be quite happy just using Ataris/Amigas and no PC.

[amigaksi]

Yes and no. you download VMWare server (i think it was...) and request a key from VMWare site... you install the software and run it. quite simple..
Though, the enterprise versions are quite expensive.
And BTW if you already have the old 98se install cd collecting dust. its nice to be able to use it again..

No, I don't want to install 98SE and VMWare on an already bloated Windows 7 64-bit and hope it works.  The more compact the OS, the better for my stuff.  And I am talking Windows 3.x not Windows 98SE.  

And BTW partitioning the drives. do you really expect Win 3.x to work on modern hardware? Even 2K have problems with that. (mostly driver availability of modern motherboards). The answer is quite simple; virtualize it. Or even emulate it.. (dosbox)

Yes, I expect Win 3.x to work on modern hardware.  That's what compatbility means.  I shouldn't have to buy some other emulation scheme (assuming it exists).

1. No, it aint the OSs fault that retailers don't include the disks with the computer when purchasing it!
2. Compatibility can be achieved by selecting compatibility mode.
3. Benchmarks is just a figure... So far my newer PCs have graveled any W98se setup in any benchmark. (3D benchmarks like 3Dmark 99, 2k, 01....)
Rendering: Vegas video have increased performance at every step i have upgraded so far, even OS upgrades.
That goes for working with photoshop as well... I would like to see you edit a RAW format 18mp image from your canon eos... in win 3.11 with a P90 and 16mb ram... i would pay to see that.. the image is 30MB in size...

It's the OSes fault that it's incompatible with previous windows API.  I won't even mention I/O ports yet, but suffice to say that up to windows 98SE, they were backward compatible on API level as well as I/O port level.  Windows 98SE was the LAST good OS by Microsoft.  It allowed direct port I/O and APi access just like Amiga OS.

Compatibility is NOT achieved for Win 3.x through selecting compatibility mode.  And even for many Win98 stuff, it doesn't work.  Windows 3.x will beat Windows 98SE given the same hardware setup since you can do 32-bit stuff in Windows 3.x.  So editing an image of 30MB using 16MB machine and a more bloated OS will degrade performance.

[amigaksi]

you understand zero about OS design if that's what you think.

It's actually the opposite.  You understand ZERO about OSes period.  You don't even understand the simple point that Windows 64-bit does not run Windows 3.x stuff.  You keep repeating the same point-- "oh, there's some dosbox where you can install Windows 3.x on top of it."  I already know that, but it's an emulator that has problems with even DOS stuff what to speak of an OS running on top it.  This I already told you before in this thread and gave you a simple DOS program that doesn't run but you keep repeating the samething as if you are blind or maybe a PC fanatic who can't accept the deficiencies when they are factually pointed out.  This is my last reply to you regarding this DOSBOX crap-- if you have the ears read on.  And I'm already done with two PC fanatics who keep just spewing out their insulting venom without any sense of reasoning.  I only reply to those who I feel know something about PCs and Amigas.  Don't have much time to waste on name-calling.  I can get a few kindergarten kids to do that.

So what?  Who uses 3.1 stuff aside from you?

Just admit you don't know here and are just speculating.  

Besides you've been told time and again: DOSBOX + 3.1 works.  Run it in that environment; it won't break into your house and kill you and your family, you know.

It doesn't work for distribution even if it ran perfectly.  Next point, if I were going to run an emulator for things that use only DOS calls and ask people to install Windows 3.x, I mine as well tell them to install a 32-bit version of Windows instead which does run Windows 3.x stuff.  Next point, let's say I have a license for windows 3.x, why in the world would I want customers to screw around with installing Windows 3.x when I can just make a boot-CD that boots to Windows 3.x using REAL DOS.

[amigaksi]

OMG...
To all of us: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnhF1QAEZjU

You need some brains to reply to what I wrote.  I was close to 100% PC programmer in 1990s and know the Windows 3.x/95/98se stuff enough to know how many cycles it takes for I/O instruction in protected mode and non-protected mode, how much memory each OS hogs up, and how to flip/flop 16-bit/32-bit with simple 66h or 67h prefix opcodes.  You have ZERO understanding like some other PC sidekicks and fanatics here-- just caught up in the frenzy of the modern OS.  I guess you also own Beta Videos and Laserdiscs as well since those were also supposedly "new" and "modern" when they came out but turned out to be a passing fad.
Heck, I haven't even spoken against PCs yet; I joined this topic to support some of the points being raised by others and my current issues with compatibility.