How to do 3D graphics development on the Amiga?

[lempkee]

ermm guys... EVER heard of "NOVA" ? .. hyperion will do this for os4 updates, ie after os4 is done ...

and as far as Warp3d goes, it can do exactly what we want it to do for now, i dont see any bigtime commercial games comming this way with state of the art 3d and most of all the money to do such a project.

and since pegasos was dragged in here, where is the 3d ability on pegasos then? , are we talking about TinyGL and rave now ?... have i missed something?? its not even in mos1.4 and as far as my dev docs say its just a basic Minigl transistion.

The nova stuff (os4 only) will be out sometime for sure but i dont see why people is stressing it out atm as its not like people have used w3d much on amiga, infact only hyperion have used it(for their games) + a few freebie games and wipeout2097+payback and some scene demos.

Mesa is dead hopefully and it has no future at all, currently for all mediator (p96) users or later cgx4 user will notice that mesa is struggling on their hw.

so why would a VERY expensive 3d api be needed before we have a finished OS?, please tell me...

belive i want one later on and i am looking forward to nova but i am in no rush since i prefer to have a OS first, and then develop for the os ON the os and see how it goes..

imagine this... DEVELOP FOR AMIGA!! we have a super puper 3dapi but we have no os....

[lempkee]

downix: its not included ..it will be in 1.5 , anyway i guess u understood my point anyway..


for karlos and shaders: anyway integrating an os with an 3d api is the future?? , i dont see why this can be a problem if its added later when there is an OS , seriously warp3d is enough for now and later we will have NOVA which i am pretty sure will be integrated somewhat..

Warp3d is a standard on amiga, its free and has enough power for now,  if you really wanted to develop a 3d game for amiga then u would use this or make your own but then it wont be an API now would it?.

anyway if anyone plan on making one, well i would be very happy but i know why hyperion is not working on nova, os4 gotta be finished first ..

you all have very good points here and i understand it, but i am a developer and i seriously dont see this as a problem atm (that we dont have a brand new 3d api with all features)
and since hyperion aint 100 people working 24/7 i understand it very well, we amiga guys need to base our past in what to expect and in what speed to expect it...

hopefully it wont be too late...

[lempkee]

shades: yes i know what you mean , but in many ways he was right since when you now upgrade lets say from an voodoo to a radeon and play quake 1 GL, well it will be exactly the same wont it?

anyway we are walking in circles here it seems,my point is just that hyperion has talked about nova for some time now and they talked about os4 and eventually they will start on nova..

..

lets see what happens, i had expected someonmne from hyperion to join in this discussion but they havent....sort of weird

[lempkee]

Snap is 2D , Warp3d / NOVA is 3d.


anyway i am glad hyperion joined in here and i hope we will get some hints and tips

rouge/ent/steffen:  OpenGL is the super puper 3d api ? , hmm ok.. i fear it will take quite alot of time to make this uptodate with either nova or warpd3d , afaik nova is supposed to be warp3d v5 right ? or hmm someting like that ... Warp3d was Step 1 ( ogl 1.x and minigl ) and Step 2 would be nova...


hairy: as it was told earlier in this thread, Morphos doesnt have a 3d api incoroprated yet, just a few people has this, it will come later (maybe in the 1.5 upd when pegasos 2 comes , which should have come 2-3 months ago if you read some posts.. )
anyway morphos use TINYGL and RAVE.

[lempkee]

oops i was abit too fast , i meant...

OpenGl is a big project and it will take time to make an amiga/ppc port of it...wont it? and then make it work as an w3d , OGL 1.x and miniGl is allready inside w3d but afaik 2.x is waaaaay bigeger and messy ...

(ie an example is directX grew over 100mb after they included this , but then again....i might be wrong as pc is like... C.R.A.P )

[lempkee]

nico: in 1.5 there will be changes ofcourse but i dont see any reason to hype 1.4 up when it comes to 3d, but i have somewhat confused all the 3d elements under mos..

anyway discussion ends here.

[lempkee]

i somewhat need to point out to everyone who is sceptic about amiga and its future.

just let me put it like this , Amiga wont "WOW" outside users for now , neither will pegasos and its morphos, it has nothing yet for the common end user (as in NOT advanced)...

Everything has to be done with babysteps and i dont see this as an problem for now, it will take time and MAYBE be the time everything is looking bright then we might get some special hw plattform or whatever, basically atm amiga and pegasos doesnt stand on its own feet, just like linux , its for niche markets.

oh and the userbase on amiga/pegasos are so small that you cant expect people to trow in millions of dollars.

anyway it hit me a few days ago that amigaOne/pegasos is more or less going into the same mistake/problem as BEbox/BEos had, i hope not but as we progress here now it seems very simmilar....and its hard to say this as i am 100% amiga and belive me if such happens.....bleh yes u know...

Os4 ... Finalized , 3dApi integrated next, developer search and to create a market, a special market... infact when amiga moves to a1 totally or os4 thats when people will fall out, and people will get confused if its backwards compatible or not and by that i mean everything and who will understand "68k applications will work" and they have Dpaint 5AGA which they want to use...

anyway people think that custom chipsets is dead, well ermm what is a GForce 4 etc then?..

as it goes for 3d api, sure i want vertex shaders etc more than most other things but i want an os first and so on....

this thread shows alot of views and i agree with 90% of em or maybe more, its just that miracles never happen in the amiga community, and i hope people wont expect it either..

maybe one day