Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Amiga Workbench advantages over other OSes  (Read 14771 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Waccoon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2002
  • Posts: 1057
    • Show all replies
Re: Amiga Workbench advantages over other OSes
« on: April 04, 2006, 11:41:28 AM »
"DEVS:" and "ENV:" were brilliant.

I also like the fact that AmigaOS uses volumes (instead of the mount points like UNIX does), and actual allows you to use NAMES for them.  I always get my CD-ROMs confused, and it would be soooo much easier to just name them "CD:" and "CDR:"

The only drawback is that the colon is not very friendly to Internet connections, where it defines the protocol.  Then again, Macs used to use colons as directory separators so you could use slashes in filenames (!), and Apple eventually made the migration to slashes.

All I care about is I don't have to worry about "../" causing problems.  I hate having to do filtering on all my paths when writing web scripts.  It would be so much nicer to just use "forum:", "forum-tpl:", "forum-pics:", and so on.  Security would be a snap.

Quote
mra500:  No virtual memory: turn off computer instead of annoying shutdown (no constant HD swapping)

Against my better judgement, I agree.  Virtual memory used to be a crutch.  Then, somebody got the idea of using it to "free" memory, which is dumb because maybe data shouldn't be in memory in the first place.  Read it off the drive, then put it right back, so you have two copies.  Great.  Then, game programmers figured if they allocate tons of memory, it will force Windows to swap out EVERYTHING to VM, giving them the maximum amound of physical memory.  That screws up background processes, causes swapping hell when you quit the game, and lots of other problems.  I hate it when games allocate 900MB+ of memory when my system has 512.

As for shutting down, that's because of buffers.  Windows is TERRIBLE with buffers, as it takes forever to write them.  If you read a Flash card, it can take minutes if not hours for the buffers to be cleared, and if you take the card out, Windows will still complain even if the buffers are empty.  It's sickening.

Quote
mra500:  Window depth

Oh my God... I HATE the way AmigaOS does it!  It seemed so lovely back in 1988 when the only alternative I had was a crappy Mac, but today I simply cannot stand it.  It should be possible to move windows wihtout selecting them, which would have the same effect, or being able to "chain" windows together into groups.  I'd love to be able to have a command prompt and a GUI view for a directory at the same time, in the same window.  The Windows shell is braindead.

Then again, I hate tabbed browsing and use the taskbar to manage a dozen windows at once.  Windows doesn't move things around on the taskbar randomly like other OSes will.  I'm a Windows taskbar junkie.  If only I could drag-and-drop to the taskbar (WTF, MS?!  ADD THAT!!!)

Quote
bilko9070:  I love the Amigas Ram disk!.. I wonder if any other os has such a thing..

There is a RAM disk driver for Windows, but it's a fixed disk size, so it's not that useful.  Of course, buffers and caching make the RAM disk less useful than it used to be.

The big plus would be that there wouldn't be so many damn temp files all over the place.  When I fix someone's computer, the first thing I do is delete the 300+MB of orphaned temp files in "%userprofile%/Local Settings/temp".  :-)  I also hate it when temp files are actually working files.  If a file is going to be open and locked, it should be in the same folder as the application, not in an unstable location, like a temp folder.

Quote
mra500: Yes, I like the RAM disk and right-click for menu too. I would have mentioned the "menu at top of screen instead of on windows" as an advantage, but Mac has this too.

I find it awful that every OS has to have a specific way of doing things, instead of letting you choose.  Where the menus are located is a matter of preference, and focing you to use them either at the top of the screen or on each window is dumb.  Apple is really, really bad at forcing you into a paricular way of thinking:  The Jobs Way(TM).

Quote
mra500:  I hate a lot of things about Windows, but one of the things that annoys me most (after the registry, of course) is the priority Windows has for screen redraws. A 1989 33Mhz Amiga might be a bit slow at screen redraws now and then, but it is absolutely pathetic for a 2006 3Ghz Windows computer with monster graphics card to regularly leave the screen half-drawn while it goes and does something in the background!

X Windows has the same problem, actually.  Responsiveness isn't a strong suit in many modern OSes.  Even BeOS has driven me nuts a few times.

Quote
Lando:  If for some reason you want a 946 x 573 Workbench screen, you can do it, but if you want a 946 x 573 Windows screen, you're stuck.

Two words:  vector graphics.  It's unforgivable how we're still using so much bitmapped graphics these days, especially on web pages, where the display is *supposed* to be ambiguous, and therefore you're not supposed to hard-code for any one resolution.  In my opinion, the WWW needs to modernize itself about 15 years, and REST and XSL are not the way to do it.

I find the filtering is to blame.  Most video cards have pretty lousy filtering.  It'd be nice if someone made a video card with an optional hardware-based SuperEagle filter.  That would ROCK.

Quote
Laser:  2-you can create your own reolutions on windows on any new nvidia or ati card but someone here point that on workbench is possible

Yeah, it's a hardware thing, not software.  Multiple resolutions was fine for TVs running off a composite signal, but is not very friendly for HDTV or LCD displays.  Better filters are what's needed, so everything isn't so damn blurry.

Quote
Laser:  maybe you have a pc with an old gfx card? or
maybe you are a newbie on emulator zone?

Many emulators don't have a very good GUI framework.  In fact, most emulators have a terrible GUI.

Quote
Laser:  Windows XP SP2 = 10, Workbench 3.9 = 0

I appreciate AmigaOS for its design principles, not for its technology.  That's why I tell people I want a new OS that works like Workbench, not a refactored AmigaOS.
 

Offline Waccoon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2002
  • Posts: 1057
    • Show all replies
Re: Amiga Workbench advantages over other OSes
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2006, 01:09:03 PM »
Quote
Workbench methaphor is that its desktop is used as a buffer zone, not as a actuall place where you copy things over...

I find that inconvinient.  I use my desktop as a working folder, and keep all my program shortcuts stashed away in other places, so I expect it to work just like a normal folder.  If you're worried about clutter, multiple workspaces is a must-have feature for a modern OS, especially if it expects to attract power users.
 

Offline Waccoon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2002
  • Posts: 1057
    • Show all replies
Re: Amiga Workbench advantages over other OSes
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2006, 01:40:45 PM »
Quote
Disagree here: First of all, as said, the main reason for shut down is the disk cache. Also you're mixing up virtual memory with demand paging, that's what's doing the disk swapping. Virtual memory is how you get memory protection.

Disk cache and disk buffers are different things.

The main reason for the long shutdown times are disk indexes, which are rebuit every time the system shuts down.  I've noticed that the more files I have on my desktop, the longer Windows takes to shut down.  If I delete a few gigs of working files, Windows shuts down a LOT faster.

Also, memory mapping is a requirement for proper virtual memory, but is not itself VM.

Quote
mra500:  Please read carefully. I already said I know it can be disabled on Windows. But I dare you to run Windows without virtual memory and run all the applications you usually run - see how well that works. (crash!)

Yeah, Windows expects VM, so if you turn it off, it will get VERY unstable.  Having VM is not the problem -- it's how the technology is used.  AmigaOS programmers are obviously more aware of memory limits than Windows hackers.

Quote
mra500:  Example: can you open Word, Excel, Explorer each on its own screen with its own resolution?

Why would you want to?  Look at what Apple does with its virtual texture desktop.  That's the direction Amiga should be heading.  Scrolling screens and virtual workspaces are a snap to add to the system once you have that nice, scalable graphics engine working.

Quote
mra500:  Only a lamer wouldn't know that you can't install unapproved custom software or do custom configs on an office work computer.

Good point.  I forget that people don't really have control over the computer when I recommend that they download a particular tool.  Today's computers really need a new security model.

Quote
uncharted:  I've always preferred the name Workbench to AmigaOS. There really wasn't a proper name for the whole system, it was sorta Kickstart+AmigaDOS+Workbench.

Workbench is what most people see, if they don't really know how to use the shell.

One thing I really, really liked about AmigaOS is that it wasn't afraid to make the shell available.  I don't understand why there has to be such a hard line between the shell and the GUI, so long as people aren't forced to use one way of doing things.  I hate that Linux makes me use the shell all the time (even when distros insist you don't have to), and everything else wants you to click click click all day.  Everybody else is into "integration", but Workbench isn't afraid to show you what's underneath.  ;-)

Quote
mra500:  When I have to copy text between two or more windows on Windows or Mac, it's a pain in the ass because I have to size or tile the windows so that they don't keep overlapping each other, blocking my access to the text I want to cut&paste. On Amiga, if I see text in a window under another window, I can copy it without the window coming to front and overlapping the window I want to paste in. (whew!)

I just ran into that problem today!  Now I see what you mean.  Duh.

In Windows, "Always on top" seems like a kludge.

Quote
Azryl:  No matter which version of DOS, WorkBench or Kickstart Rom you owned, you could buy the manuals, guides and books to help you discover the power of the OS/hardware

Yeah, you can't get any books on programming Windows or MacOS these days.  ;-)

The REAL problem is that Microsoft just keeps changing things all the time.  They just can't figure out what they want to do.

Quote
Pixie:  I don't know if mac has a buffer zone, but Windows methaphor is a bit as linux 'everything is a file' way of doing things, as there are more effective ways to do it without going on using always the same metaphor

Old Macs do have a buffer zone, where the files existed in certain places on a device and only showed up on the desktop.  If you moved floppy items onto the desktop, ejecting the floppy would clear all the icons for things stored on the disk.  Newer Macs work more like Windows, and have files stored in a "special" folder in "Home".

It would be nice if everything actually was a file on Unix.  It isn't true at all.  FTP is a prime example of this; you have to use special programs to shuffle "files" around, instead of good old shell commands.  I wish Plan9 had gotten more attention.  UNIX is powerful, but it still seems old to me, surviving only because it is better than Windows, underneath.  Being "Good Enough" or "Better than Windows" (take your pick) seems to be the only real qualification for an OS these days.  If Linux fans are so rebellious, why can't they stand to break UNIX tradition and shuffle off compatibility with 15-year-old tools?

That's why I want a new Amiga.  I'm tired of everybody just starting with UNIX and just making some new Crystal(TM)(R)(C)(FU) icons for it.  Gimme a new shell to replace Bash, and I'll be impressed.
 

Offline Waccoon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2002
  • Posts: 1057
    • Show all replies
Re: Amiga Workbench advantages over other OSes
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2006, 01:49:14 PM »
If it's locked in read mode, the file can be copied.  If it's locked in write mode, it cannot.  That's the way an OS is supposed to work.  AmigaOS bends this rule a bit since it doesn't really have the ability to enforce it.

The problem is that nobody should open and lock a file for an extended period of time.  The file should be opened when needed, updated, and then closed, allowing the OS disk buffers to handle all the dirty work.  It makes it easier for the OS to handle the filesystem efficiently, too, and reduces the likliness of open links not being closed properly.