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[AmigaMac]

If Apple tries to compete with Windows they're dead.

Well Strobe is correct, Apple would never be able to successfully penetrate the x86 market much less compete with Microsoft head on... their strategy with PPC is still a better choice!  By the time they clock Power Macs to near 1.8 GHz, IBM's PPC 970 will already be in production and Apple will shift to the 32/64bit transition with the next major release of OS X!

[AmigaMac]

Mac is already competing with Windows.  Just because they use PowerPC makes them immune to a company that owns 95% of the PC market?  Please...

All the rest of the world uses X86, including other OS vendors.  It's the most widely supported CPU in the world.  Not everyone likes it, but it works.

You're missing the major reality of the problem... no software developer (Adobe, Macromedia and etc...) in their right mind is going to support 2 OSes running on the same platform, there's no point in doing it!

Well I'm not sure what you mean by the rest of the world, but I work mostly around SPARC and have been since the early 90s!  Intel is going to replace x86 eventually, so its future will rely on AMD (and VIA probably)!

Not all Mac users prefer Macs just for the OS, some actually appreciate the hardware aspect of it.  I prefer it due to the integration of software and hardware as well as that PowerPC is more efficient than x86 for mobile (laptops) computing in regards to power consumption!

Apple will never go x86, so there is no reason to keep beating this dead horse any longer!!

[AmigaMac]

thats the kind of mindset that killed amiga and IS killing Apple.
ignoreing the fact that as a home computer by definition Apples/PC compete with one another...and ignoreing the fact that if apple had cheaper hardware they might sway more users to their platform due to the OS.

Oh another death knell in regards to Apple from mips... there isn't anything killing Apple!  They're still selling 3-4 million computers a year regardless of how their marketshare looks compared to others, which marketshare itself is not the only important ingredient for relevancy, installed userbase is another, which Apple has a grand share of 11.6% of all computers installed worldwide (supposedly).  Take into account that out of 200+ million people in the US, only about 60+ million actually have a computer of some type (it being an Amiga, PC, Mac and etc...) and Apple's userbase accounts for nearly 30 million Mac users worldwide!

Apple will always be a niche and that will never change because it's not in their business model to be just another company like Dell or Gateway!

as is only zealots and a handful of professionals buy macs... they could be mass marketed if they where not so expensive and proprietary and slow... its to bad apple wont wake up to the fact that by definition they are 'competeing' because they are in the 'home computer market' and under this idea of 'omg we cant compete with windows' they have gone from nearly 11% to 3% in a few short years.\

Only zealots huh?!  Yeah the usual word for the people who don't follow the masses in buying decisions and/or conform to the norm!  I guess you can count Amiga and Linux users in that claim, which at the end of the day no one really gives a rats arse!!

keep hardware obselete,slow and proprietary

keep the OS good but limit it to this obselete, slow, priprietary hardware,

keep the prices so high we can barely sell units to the few zealots left standing.

Oh yeah, where was you when PCs were slower than Macs and just about everything else out there, you obviously wasn't preaching the same tune back then, but rather had some other ideology/argument why PCs were somehow better than the rest!

that sure sounds like a winner...

Well it seems to work very well for Apple!

[AmigaMac]

Tigger how convenient... I knew you would be in here soon enough!

Let me shed some light on your supposed know it all tales that turn out to be just that, tales!

In regards to our past debate on Pixar and Sun Microsystems and what Pixar was actually using in-house:

Pixar switches from Sun to Intel

Enjoy the article!

 :-D

As for the marketshare versus installed userbase... those 2 numbers don't go hand in hand!

Let's do simple math:

the first year:

Company A sells 90 computers
Company B sells 10 computers
 
...this results in 100 computers sold in total!

Company A has 90% of the marketshare and installed userbase!

the next year:

Company A sells 10 computers
Company B sells 90 computers

...this results in another 100 computers sold in total to equal 200 in the past 2 years!

Company A has 90% of the marketshare and breaks the installed userbase to 50% between it and company B since now they have 200 computers installed to the actual market overall in use!

Now that was the simple of it!  Unfortunately for Dell, it hasn't been around as long as Apple, also Windows PCs have not held their value as long as Macs since Windows didn't start to lead over DOS until after Windows 3.1, while Macs were already being used and like my own Mac SE/30 (1989), is still usable today!  There's probably more Macs from the late 80s in use than DOS PCs of the same era!

Of course it's hard to gauge how many computers that have been sold in the last 20 years are still in use, it's more of a guessing game and lots of research!

That's where marketshare percentage becomes obsolete because it can't erase the numbers of past sales and the installed userbase that has been put in place.  On top of all that, marketshare shifts from quarter to quarter and year to year.  We saw Apple's marketshare rise last quarter (for the US alone) to about 3.7% (maybe 3.9%).  These numbers will always change, HP is #1 currently with Dell at #2 and with Legend out of China making inroads, there could be more competition on the way!

[AmigaMac]

Its great you like you Mac SE/30.   But understand that if we just take the last two years of x86 boxes and EVERY SINGLE PPC mac every built as a UNIQUE user (obviously not true, lots have owned 2 or 3 Power Macs) and all still be used (obviously not true) then we are less then 1/2 way to the quoted 11.5%.   There are lots and lots and lots of pre-jan 2001 x86 boxes out there, being used every day.   Lots more then there are pre PPC macs being used by someone that doesnt have a newer computer.  Every amiga still in use, reduces mac marketshare, every ST etc, I dont see any way to crunch the numbers and get mac to double digits.

I really don't use that thing... I actually acquired it (in the summer of 2000 actually) from a friend's whose wife got it for free from a US Government office she worked at.  It also came with an old Apple Laser Printer and works quite well and was well maintained.  It has an old version of Microsoft Office on it and Netscape as a web browser and some other various software on it.  I guess it could be the last resort if my other computers go bust (even my old PC)!

As for marketshare... I really don't care how much Apple has or hasn't got!  I think most Mac users would rather be the small portion so that our computing can remain untainted by the exact problems Microsoft is dealing with now in regards to hackers and other such problems they have to deal with.  I don't think Apple is in the position to handle those kinds of issues currently.  I guess at the end of the day, as long as Apple sells enough computers to remain relevant and keep going year to year, let the other guys fight over the rest of the computing landscape!  Steve Jobs might have a different opinion than me, but oh well, that's my opinion on the subject!

an article with some insight:

Apple Has Always Been a Significant Player

Pretty much the raw truth on Apple and their niche market:

Apple Has Always Been a Niche Player

 :-D

[AmigaMac]

mips,

If you notice in Apple's latest price change, I think they're trying to head down that avenue where their computers become more affordable.  But you know and I know that if they dropped the prices too rapidly, people will be wondering why and probably be really angry.  I figure they'll slowly creep down the price range with every new release this year, which with their profit margins being great already, it shouldn't hurt their bottomline at the end of the day!

Only time will tell though!!