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Author Topic: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?  (Read 41311 times)

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Offline Blinx123

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« on: July 09, 2013, 06:23:08 PM »
Quote from: swift240;740364
No not realy the only way Linux is comparable to any Amiga is the safe and easy way to use it, its a friendly OS just like Amiga OS.

Amiga first, Linux Second and Windows no where in sight. (however Windows 7 is not to bad)

Mike.


Not that I have anything against Linux (typing this on Debian), but how is it easier to use than Windows? Installing a new graphics driver in Windows is unlikely to blow anything up. The same can't be said about Linux, where seemingly marginal tasks can lead to much grief.
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Offline Blinx123

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2013, 06:51:26 PM »
Quote from: fishy_fiz;740385
Im with Blinx there. Windows is much friendlier than Linux. In fact AmigaOS shares more in common with Windows than linux when it comes to user land space. Granted what a person is used to is what they'll find easier, but Linux is hardly "friendly". Some distros are easier to use than others, but that doesnt stop it being convoluted under the hood.

Yea. Amiga OS is definitely more like Windows.
It's not always a good thing, since stuff like torrent software or unpackers are easier to get for Linux and are already included with most distros, while Windows/AmigaOS are pretty barebones and leave you with a sense of not knowing what to do.

Windows/AmigaOS are definitely easier to use and way harder to break though. I would probably have to spend 5 hours and 10 pints of beer to screw things up inside Window's registry the way I did for Linux with one silly command.

MacOSX is probably the weirdest of the bunch, btw. It's kind of a blend between the geeky Unix world and what made Windows famous.
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Offline Blinx123

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2013, 07:06:21 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;740388
And then you'd at least have ten pints in you to soften the blow!


Haha. Yea.

Which reminds me. I should probably get me some pints in order to soften the blow of screwing up my Linux build :(
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Offline Blinx123

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2013, 01:28:10 AM »
Kinda off-topic, but I just tried AEROS (AROS on i386 Linux host).

Didn't feel as good as it could have. Having to deal with two filesystems (the standard Linux one as well as the virtual AROS one) is plain irritating. Wish they had spent the additional time needed to abstract the Linux filesystem away.
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Offline Blinx123

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2013, 01:43:51 AM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;740501
I spent about eight years making multiple attempts to get into Linux. I've tried at least half a dozen distros, in multiple versions. I took a course on it when I was in college. And ultimately, I realized that I was putting more work into trying to force myself to acclimate to a badly-designed system for the sake of ideology than I'd spent learning every other OS I've used put together, and concluded that it just wasn't worth the pain.

But no, you go ahead and keep insisting that I just haven't tried.

Who the what now? GNU/Linux is an extremely well designed OS, actually.
If you call that a "badly-designed system" then where the heck does Windows end up in that equation?

There are some major bulletin-points for Linux (or any other POSIX compliant Unix clone, for that matter) and against Windows.

1. Performance

2. Ease of use (once you've figured everything out, it's easier to fix basically everything. Including situations in which Windows would just throw nonsensical walls of text at you).

3. An independent set of tools (no need to install or update stuff you'll never even use. Windows is still plain silly, in comparison. Just today, I was required to update Internet Explorer because someone thought it was smart to base his online client on calls specific to this monstrosity).

4. Customizability of both, the user interface and the kernel.

5. A helpful community of people who know exactly what they're doing.

6. A very compatible toolchain for software developers.

7. Non-proprietary APIs like OpenGL/OpenGL ES (most Windows software developers use Direct3D nowadays, which make it unnecessarily harder to port applications to other platforms).
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 01:46:05 AM by Blinx123 »
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Offline Blinx123

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2013, 01:49:04 AM »
Quote from: Blinx123;740762
Who the what now? GNU/Linux is an extremely well designed OS, actually.
If you call that a "badly-designed system" then where the heck does Windows end up in that equation?

There are some major bulletin-points for Linux (or any other POSIX compliant Unix clone, for that matter) and against Windows.

1. Performance

2. Ease of use (once you've figured everything out, it's easier to fix basically everything. Including situations in which Windows would just throw nonsensical walls of text at you).

3. An independent set of tools (no need to install or update stuff you'll never even use. Windows is still plain silly, in comparison. Just today, I was required to update Internet Explorer because someone thought it was smart to base his online client on calls specific to this monstrosity).

4. Customizability of both, the user interface and the kernel.

5. A helpful community of people who know exactly what they're doing.

6. A very compatible toolchain for software developers.

7. Non-proprietary APIs like OpenGL/OpenGL ES (most Windows software developers use Direct3D nowadays, which make it unnecessarily harder to port applications to other platforms).


EDIT: I set up a nice XFCE desktop for my mom today and she got most of the intricacies within the hour. This just goes to show that GNU/Linux needn't necessarily be complicated. It's not like they force you to make do with twm and two to three terminal windows.


EDIT2: Darn. I'm overworked. Accidently hit quote when I wanted to hit edit.
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Offline Blinx123

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2013, 01:43:27 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;740768
Honestly? People who are still flogging the "LOL WinBlow$ BSOD LOL Micro$shaft!" mantra haven't done any serious reevaluation since the days of 95 or Me. 2000 and XP are perfectly reasonable, stable systems with a coherent, modern design that's carefully relegated legacy DOS scariness to emulated support. Vista had plenty of problems, but 7 is even more generally well-regarded than XP (though I prefer XP myself.)

I'm not trying to bash Windows. But the file system is generally less well designed (as others have pointed out before).

Personally, I loath everything before or after Windows 7. Really used to like Windows XP, but now that I've to deal with dozens of systems still running Windows XP every day, I begin to see all the shortcomings and lack of userfriendliness. It just didn't age well.

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Whereas Linux piles framework after framework after framework onto the system in an attempt to build a modern desktop OS out of an architecture designed to drive VT-100s from PDP-11s...

You do realize Windows is, essentially, framework driven? Sure, most of them are Microsoft products. But to say Linux piles up frameworks whereas Windows doesn't, is kind of silly.

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Every system I've used Linux on has been either only as fast as or noticeably slower than an appropriately-configured Windows/OSX install. Of course, zealots will bleat about this being the fault of proprietary drivers and how it's your problem for not using open hardware and conveniently ignore how they told you that Linux will make sweet wizardly love to all of your hardware no matter how old or obscure...

Can't really follow you there. Linux runs great even on the smallest system. Of course, you shouldn't run stuff like Ubuntu or the likes.

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This is true if, by "once you've figured everything out," we mean "once you've memorized The Design and Implementation of the 4.4    BSD Operating System" or something equivalent. In any other case: Bull. Shıt. Fixing Linux involves anything from posting on forums asking for help from the much-lauded and oh-so-helpful Linux user community (standard answers: "works for me," "you don't need this broken feature," "this bug was already logged in 1996, please add relevant details to the ticket and wait for a fix," or the ever-popular "you have the source, fix it yourself!") to chasing includes from one /etc shell script to the next looking for any string even vaguely related to the error.

You have to know something? Tough luck! It was never touted to be a newbie OS.
Linux was, originally, developed for people using computers for the sake of using computers. It's only now that individuals/companies seek to change this. And while this approach isn't perfect yet, distros like Linux Mint or Ubuntu already show great progress.

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No need to install or update stuff you'll never even use! You know, like DBus, or PulseAudio, or grandomcryptonerdwanklibrary-effthensa or any of the zillion other packages that are required to install basically any Linux software, from text editors to web browsers, that's been around long enough to attract a dozen developers who each pile on every feature they think the software should have, no matter how esoteric.

Distros != OS

GNU/Linux doesn't require any of that stuff. Only certain distros package stuff like Pulse Audio, while others (such as any lightweight XFCE based distro) use ALSA.

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Yes, because what I really want to do on a computer I just want to be able to do stuff on is rebuild the damn kernel.

It's a learning experience. Nothing wrong with rebuilding a kernel.

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UI customization, on the other hand, would be great - if it were in any way consistent across any set of programs outside of the megalithic KDE-type desktop application suites (and those, of course, are the absolute worse offenders on point #3.)

I currently run Ubuntu with Unity on my laptop (utilizing a MacOSX theme). Aside of Steam (which is build on top of Chromium and thus no real native application), every application I use is styled consistently.

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A community of people who can't be assed to post meaningful information, suggest you "RTFM" no matter what your problem is, and make fun of you for not having memorized the source code. Yes, very very helpful folks.

Dunno which community you are referring to, but people in the newer, more streamlined usergroups generally offer valid support even to people new to Linux/Unix.

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A very compatible toolchain, unless of course you want to do something crazy like run a GCC 2-built binary on an OS that expects binaries built with GCC 4. That's just crazy talk, man!

Have you ever actually looked inside Windows/MacOSX development? Plenty of 3rd party Windows applications ask for Net 2.0 when Net 4.5 is already installed. In order to develop MacOSX 10.7 applications that also run on 10.5, you even have to implement workarounds, since XCode 3 isn't really available on MacOSX Lion anymore.


@ElPolloDiabl

It's Mozilla Firefox' plugin-container that's at fault there. I think they fixed it for one of their earlier releases (Firefox 12, possibly), only to have it turn up just a few months later again.

I currently think about compiling my own, Webkit based, browser from scratch. Webkit offers genuinely better performance and stability.

@Mrs Beanbag

It's possible, actually. I don't remember whether Windows XP already offered the option to simply overwrite your existing installation and copy all your documents to a single folder, but with BartPE, it's definitely possible. I accidently did that when I had to re-install Windows XP for a client last Friday.

You basically boot into BartPE, forget about all the formating tools and head right into the Installer. It will then copy the installation files to your existing HDD partition, reboot and install Windows XP to and from that HDD. In the end, I ended up not only with a fresh Windows XP but all the files were still there.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 01:52:02 PM by Blinx123 »
Sam: \\"You crack me up little buddy\\"
Max: \\"I love you Sam\\"