MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)

[Hans_]

@amiga4ever

Very few people have used both MorphOS 2.0 and Amiga OS 4.1 enough to be able to give you a proper comparison. For example, I doubt that takemehomegrandma has actually tried Amiga OS 4.1 enough to support his claims about the system. You're not going to get particularly good or neutral comparisons, although you'll get some that try to sound neutral. I'm an Amiga OS 4.1 user not a MorphOS user so I can't give you a good comparison either. I can say, however that Amiga OS 4.1 is a great system.

Now to clarify a few things. I can say that Amiga OS 4.1 is a big step up from OS 4.0, so Matt_H's comparison is a little behind the time. Amiga OS 4.1 has both MPlayer and DvPlayer (an OEM version, but the full version is pretty cheap). DvPlayer is very good as a movie player. MorphOS has Sputnik, but OS 4.1 has OWB, so both have CSS capable browsers. Both have hardware compositing. Both have a lot of ports of open-source games/apps. Developers for both OSes are continually working to improve the OS and expand the number of apps.

In the end, both should feel like an Amiga, but faster and more powerful. I prefer Amiga OS 4.1; others prefer MorphOS. Take your pick, or try out both if you can.

Hans

[Hans_]

@takemehomegrandma

When taken together your claims form an inaccurate picture.

Amiga backwards compatibility? Well this is an established fact, and it hasn't happened by itself, but by hard and persistent work from the MorphOS developers to make the OS that way. This should be acknowledged, not belittled. The OS4 team didn't have this feature as prioritized as the MorphOS team, they had another vision and wanted to do things in a different way instead. I'm *not* saying OS4 sucks in this regard, only that MorphOS has *better* backwards compatibility. For instance, read what "Toaks" has to say about it here. He has both MorphOS and OS4, and what he says on that page and a few pages forward is that both systems are nice and good and all, but due to some different priorities and views, MorphOS has better backwards compatibility.

I'm not sure what Toaks' background is, but saying that The OS4 team didn't have backward compatibility as a priority is inaccurate. Toaks' post contains assumptions and opinion. The truth is that the 68k apps that crash on OS 4.1 mostly crash due to hidden bugs that OS4's parital memory protection catches. So, the crashing is actually a good thing, because it prevents apps from destabilizing the whole OS. Moreover, Amiga OS 4.1 has improved things here.

Or was it that the MorphOS desktop (Ambient) is light years ahead of any Workbench? Anyone that has used and followed Ambient's development knows how it started as an inferior desktop that everyone replaced with the original Amiga Workbench or Directory Opus Magellan the first thing they did. In MorphOS 2.0 I seriously doubt that anyone has replaced Ambient with Workbench, and this is for a reason!

I doubt that they could replace it with Amiga OS 4.1's workbench because it probably wouldn't run properly. Workbench is indeed a component in serious need of updating, but even that has been improved in Amiga OS 4.1. The major item that's missing is browsing directories without having to open new windows every time you open a drawer. Seeing as you haven't seen Amiga OS 4.1's Workbench in action, saying that Ambient is light-years ahead is on shaky ground.

Or was it the USB stack? Can you *really* claim that OS4's USB stack is better in *any* way? And the same with printing, where are the OS4 advantages?

Poseidon has isosynchronous transfers and USB 2.0, so it is better, but you make it sound like it leaves OS 4.1's stack in the dust. OS 4.1's stack has improved over OS 4.0.

I can't comment about printing because I've never used Turboprint (the 68k version can be used on OS4) on any system. However, OS4's printing system has had some internal changes which I can't comment upon until the next SDK is released.

Whether you like MUI 4.0 (and all the MUI apps out there) and appreciates a clean and consistent user interface experience when using them, as well as the MUI customization options for all the programs and the desktop itself, is a matter of taste. As I said.

You're implying that, because Reaction is the default GUI system on OS4, that it doesn't have a clean and consistent user interface experience. This is completely untrue. All apps on OS4 have a consistent look and feel regardless of whether it uses Reaction or MUI.

Sputnik is a *native* browser, the other one is a SDL recompile. A matter of taste. Sputnik is said to become available for OS4 as well, so there might not even be a problem there. But if you are going to degrade the Amiga to some kind of loader for recompiled X11 and SDL apps, then I think someone missed a point somewhere. Use Linux instead. Heck, with a simple VNC client you could even run Internet Explorer and Microsoft Office, how about that! :-P

Wrong, as Xeron said, OWB is not an SDL recompile. And this highlights my point regarding your post, you're trying to give a comparison when you don't really know enough about the other system to make a proper comparison.

OWB never was just a recompile, even when it used SDL. It's come a long way since then and it has a Reaction GUI. The latest Amiga OS 4.1 version uses the native Cairo API for rendering which is just as fast, but far more powerful than using the graphics library (which is what the older version did).

Hans

[Hans_]

takemehomegrandma wrote:

Hans_ wrote:
@takemehomegrandma

When taken together your claims form an inaccurate picture.

No they don't, and I was going to write a reply to that, but then I saw that pVC already had! ;-)

Actually, pVC gave his impressions on both systems, not a reply to me. More importantly pVC has actually used both systems so he knows what he's talking about, you don't (with regard to Amiga OS 4.1 that is).

Hans

[Hans_]

@pVC

You seem to have had some problems with OS 4.1 that I haven't had. For example, I've used USB drives and they pop up instantly for me. With the exception of my Force 3D pro having the z and throttle axes swapped, I haven't experienced any USB issues. I know that others have though, but they seem to be related to specific products.

MorphOS's shell is much more advanced than OS4.1's. In OS4.1 you don't have even scrollbar or backbuffer etc, but in MorphOS you have those and even search options for buffer, multiple tabs on one shell, session saving, terminal emulations for ssh use etc etc.

It's coming for OS 4.x, and this is one of the features that I really want. I've used vinced in the past, but it's not that great.

Overall look and eyecandy is also better in MorphOS. There's cool themes for windows, about 30 different screenblankers (even 3D accelerated demoscene effects), nice background pictures and other gfx, colorful png mouse pointers etc. They really should think these things with OS4 too.. now there's ugly yellowish backgrounds with weird purple scrollbar backgrounds as default theme.

What ugly yellowish background? That's not the OS 4.1 default theme. I'm currently using png mouse pointers on OS 4.1. Oh, and have you tried out the 3D accelerated blankers on OS4?

OS installation also tells about finishing touches. MorphOS installer is good looking with only some main points covered. After installation everything is ready in first boot. On OS4.1 there's lots of useless requesters telling what's going to happen next, but then at the end nobody tells if the installation was finished There also opens some external windows, which shouldn't be visible to users IMHO. Installation is divided in two phases and there's reboot needed in between. Also some default settings are bad. For example AHI settings had defaulted to mute, no channels, 0 frequency.

I never noticed it opening additional windows that shouldn't be visible. And my default AHI settings worked just fine.  after installation.

I also like MorphOS's IControl prefs. You can define hotkeys for all kind of actions. For example window handling options are good. You can define mouse/keyboard actions to bring windows to front, send them to back, center them, maximize them, activate prev/next etc. You also can do certain things for whole window families. For example bring to front all open windows of certain application. In OS4.1 they're handled with traditional commodities and by default there isn't many.. basically it's old ClickToFront commodity.

3D support or WOS emulation in OS4 seems to be unfinished. All old Amiga's 3D/PPC games and demos I've tried had problems under OS4.1 while they worked on MorphOS.

Which games? I've run Wipeout no problem; I wasn't too interested in other old games. I'm still working on MiniGL (the OS 4.1 version was a beta) so if you have any issues with 3D (not for old 68k/WarpOS games though), please let me know.

Hans

[Hans_]

itix wrote:
@Hans

Or was it that the MorphOS desktop (Ambient) is light years ahead of any Workbench? Anyone that has used and followed Ambient's development knows how it started as an inferior desktop that everyone replaced with the original Amiga Workbench or Directory Opus Magellan the first thing they did. In MorphOS 2.0 I seriously doubt that anyone has replaced Ambient with Workbench, and this is for a reason!

I doubt that they could replace it with Amiga OS 4.1's workbench because it probably wouldn't run properly.

I dont think he meant OS 4.0/4.1 Workbench but WB from OS 3.9. First versions of Ambient (and later also...) were so limited in features that some users found it better replace it by Workbench from OS 3.9.

Well, if we're comparing MOS 2.1 with AOS 4.1, then comparing Ambient with AOS 3.9's Workbench doesn't make sense. Workbench has been improved, although the basic way of accessing files hasn't changed.

Hans

[Hans_]

pVC wrote:
I also find the OS4.1's oldskool prefs system pretty messy nowadays, when there is much more settings needed than 20 years ago. MorphOS has them more clearly organized and rearranged. OS4.1's prefs also don't feel consistent.. it feels like they've taken prefs from old programs from here and there and haven't adapted them with any plan.

I actually prefer the OS 4.1 prefs system over a monolithic preferences editor.

It also gives consistency to system and programs as MUI got as de facto standard on Amiga and for example most networking programs use it. Now you can tune whole system with it.

What exactly do you mean with consistency to the system and programs? If you mean that there's only one set of themes to edit, then I agree; if you're talking about the look and feel, Reaction and MUI have been setup to give the same look and feel.

Hans

[Hans_]

pVC wrote:
With very limited testing I could guess it depends about the size of mass storage device too. 2GB stick doesn't show up instantly, but lot faster than 250GB drive. When I plug that 250GB drive in, first it doesn't seem to happen anything. With my very first try I had time to start looking mounter program, because I thought it doesn't automount. Then there appears uninitialized icon on desktop and finally it changes to correct drive icon and I can use the drive. Also I had problem to get memory stick to work when having several devices plugged... or maybe I just didn't have patience to wait enough.

Part of the problem could be lack of USB 2.0 support, although the delay that you talk about sounds too long to be just about slow transfer rates (12 Mb/s or whatever USB 1's limit is, should still be able to transfer 1 MiB/s).

The default 4.1 theme has yellowish backgrounds everywhere, like in all prefs programs. Or maybe it's just my cheap TFT monitors, but it really shows up like light yellow... reminds me yellowed Amigas or old paper Also the rest of the color choises don't work that good together in my opinion, like the red group titles.

The main background is blue with a boing-ball, etc. To be honest, I can't remember what the window backgrounds were because I changed that to my personal preference right away. I just don't remember the default being yellowish at all, especially not in the prefs programs.

I was thinking that this comparison is made with out-of-the-box systems. Or is there PNG pointers or 3D blankers in 4.1 cd somewhere? I haven't noticed... it would go too wide if we take all 3rd party stuff in count here too. BTW. PNG-icons don't seem to work by default on OS4.1 either. It gave me problems at first when some programs had png-icon on their dir and without 3rd party extension the dir wasn't accessible from Workbench.

Fair enough. It would be ridiculously easy to collect the blankers and pointers and put them on the CD though.

I never noticed it opening additional windows that shouldn't be visible. And my default AHI settings worked just fine.  after installation.

Installer opened Dialer shell window at some point of network configuration. It showed unnecessary information and the window wasn't closed by installer ever. That gave me uncertain feeling if the installation was finished at the end, because it wasn't closed or there wasn't any information if everything was completed.

Well that explains why I didn't see that, I don't use dial-up any more.

AHI had all settings zeroed when it opened its config window during the installation. I noticed it, but forgot to change everything and that's why I didn't had any sound after installation. More inexperienced user could be in trouble because of that. I heard some others have had same problem too.

Out of curiosity, which sound card are you using? My SBLive's default values were fine.

Which games? I've run Wipeout no problem; I wasn't too interested in other old games. I'm still working on MiniGL (the OS 4.1 version was a beta) so if you have any issues with 3D (not for old 68k/WarpOS games though), please let me know.

As I said, with old Amiga games/demos. I'm interested backwards compatibility and that's why I haven't tried new OS4 native 3D stuff that much. Almost all games started, but had some graphical problems. Wipeout works best, but not perfectly. Transparencies doesn't seem to work in it. For example on screen texts and graphics have boxed background when it should be transparent.[/quote]

What graphics card do you have? Transparency works fine in Wipeout on my card (Radeon 9000 pro).

Hans

[Hans_]

TNovosel wrote:
I have Os4.0 and Mos2.0 (unregistred) and MorphOs is better in any points over Os4.0. (I don't know about Os4.1)

So you're not even using MorphOS 2.1? In that case, you're comparing two older versions of the OSes, which is not useful. Amiga OS 4.1, in particular, is a big improvement over version 4.0. No idea what difference MorphOS 2.1 makes.

Hans

[Hans_]

TNovosel wrote:
@Hans

MorphOs 2.1 fixes only some bugs in Mos2.0, nothing more.

Well, Amiga OS 4.1 is significantly better than Amiga OS 4.0.

Hans

[Hans_]

TNovosel wrote:

Hans_ wrote:

Well, Amiga OS 4.1 is significantly better than Amiga OS 4.0.

Hans

I believe you, many other Os4.1 users say that also.
It is 68k compatibility also better?

I've been told that it is, but I've never really tested it personally. Most of my software is OS4 native.

Hans

[Hans_]

Matt_H wrote:
@ Hans_

What I thought to be the latest version of MPlayer on OS4 (from November of last year) is a crashy mess. Is there a newer version kicking around anywhere?

Not that I know of, but then, I haven't used MPlayer in a while.

On a partially-related note, could you talk a bit more about the new features in 4.1? It seems like not many details beyond the press release and "It's better" have made it out. Not a huge deal, as I will get 4.1 eventually, but in the meantime I'm just curious.

I have a brief review here. It was written about a week or so after installing OS 4.1 so it's a bit brief.

Visible improvements:
- It's more stable than OS 4.0
- Its composition engine works well and is integrated nicely without any visible slowdown
- The new lister mode makes scanning through files easier, particularly with rescaled icons indicating what the files are
- MiniGL 2.0 beta allows more OpenGL software to run (see the OS 4.1 only OpenGL games on os4depot)
- PTP cameras are supported (I don't have one of those personally, but some people are very happy about this one)
- AmigaInput is back so joystick support is available (the prefs/calibration program has everything that you'd expect)
- That's all I can remember right now (I don't have my machine with me)

The invisible improvements:
- Changes to DOS
- Native Cairo port (although it's noticeable in that the latest version of OWB requires it)
- Intelligent memory pager (stays out of your way until you need it, you won't really notice that it's there)
- Other stuff I haven't noticed yet or forgot about

A lot of the changes are internal, and really of benefit to developers. I'm hoping that the new SDK comes out soon so that more developers can take advantage of the new features.

You can read a more detailed review on arstechnica.

Hans

[Hans_]

pVC wrote:

JJ wrote:
Where is the default horible yellow theme  in AOS4.1 then ?

In any prefs window there? Or if you say that it isn't yellowish, then I have to blame my monitor Anyway it doesn't look good here IMHO. And especially with combination of those red and purple things.

Ok, I checked RGB values of those backgrounds, because it came this big question And it really seems to be bit leaning to yellow side. Only a bit, but maybe my monitor shows it too clearly. In any case I would like more some other color scheme.

It really has to be your monitor if your prefs editors are yellowish too. It's not yellowish on my system. The problem with colour schemes is that no default scheme is going to satisfy everyone.

Hans