HJF IRC log - With Nicks this time :-)

[Nickman]

and with Q and A sorted and other stuff removed. I realy hope no one gets pissed off by me posting this.


[10:57] <_4pLaY_> Hans-JoergF: will the CSPPC version of OS4 be out before the A1 still?
[10:57] 4pLaY: Yes. First CSPPC, then A1.

[10:57] Hows compatibility with 68k OS 3.x software presently? Reports on various forums say not too good atm, but should get better?
[10:58] fibbles: Some stuff still has problems, but most well-behaved stuff works.
[10:58] Even big apps like WordWorth.

[10:58] someone said ibrowse didnt work.. which is weird because I've seen a screenshot with ibrowse running
[10:58] fibbles: It works.

[10:59] does the MUI look match the Reaction look yet?
[10:59] fibbles: Not completely. Some images have been replaced, but some work is still required.

[10:59] <_4pLaY_> Hans-JoergF: Any chance we will see OS4 on Peg2? and how about Shark and Blizzard versions?
[11:00] 4play: Peg2, sure there is a chance, but I don't make that decision. Blizzard: Affirmative. Shark: When we get a prototype.

[11:00] has the hard drive/IDE drivers for A1 been finished yet, or are we still booting by other means?
[11:01] fibbles: A1 IDE is still a protoype, but if you where here you could see it works.
[11:01] fibbles: boots from IDE.

[11:01] Any new drivers on the way? Most importantly graphics cards
[11:02] ajk: Graphics will be done with snap on A1. On the CSPPC, we're using "normal" P96.
[11:02] ajk: Other than that, we're working full force on drivers for A1.

[11:03] When will the SDK be released in relation to the final OS releases before or after?
[11:03] uncharted: Not decided yet. There might be a limited "public" beta test on the A1 with an SDK release, but first we'll try to get this into beta.
[11:03] uncharted: Managing SDK takes resources.

[11:03] <_4pLaY_> Hans-JoergF: what do you say the chance is we see OS4 out on CSPPC just in time for x-mas or even before? and when out will work continue on fixing buggs/new updates for it or will all manpower center around the A1 version?

[11:04] what is the exact config showed on Benelux`s A1 and how are the public`s reaction when they saw it?
[11:04] ami603: we have two G4/800 here

[11:04] Hans-JoergF: do you know of the status of the AC 97 audio drivers?

[11:08] Can you give any more information on these "web services" that are planned, what's XML support looking like?
[11:09] Uncharted: Can't give more info on web services, they're for 4.1 and will probably be in the same league as Gecko/Mozilla and KHMTL.
[11:09] uncharted: XML is a shared library, offering event and tree based API's

[11:09] doens`t make double efforts wasted developing snap drivers and Radeon(forefront) at same time?
[11:10] Ami603: Forefront will develop for CSPPC version and Classic OS 3.x

[11:09] Hans-JoergF: I take it you guys are working on rewriting P96 and graphics.library?
[11:10] Fibbles: yes

[11:09] Hans-JoergF: In the AOS4 on AOne screenshots the Amidock looks a bit different. Has anything new happened to it or is it just configured differently?
[11:10] Mood: I've enabled the transparent dock feature

[11:10] i have a question, will there be iglasses suport for os 4.0
[11:10] nostalgic: Only if someone writes a driver...

[11:11] Hans-JoergF: how much work has been completed on that part?
[11:11] fibbles: AmiDock? Practically finished

[11:11] <_4pLaY_> Hans-JoergF: will the Roadshow version shippied with OS4 be a demo version?
[11:11] 4play: No, Roadshow will be the full feature thing, PPC native and all.

[11:11] Hans-JoergF: sorry, I meant P96 and graphics.library
[11:12] fibbles: P96 is being ported as we speak (sort of, I'm not at home

[11:12] why two 3D graphic systems: Warp3D and OPENGL ?
[11:12] borchen: Warp3D is what we control, and can add features. OpenGL is for portability, but tends to move slow.

[11:12] is it hard to makes a driver for Stereoscopic 3d
[11:12] nostalgic: Application support is needed for that.

[11:12] Hans-JoergF: ok, my question is, how much have you ported so far.. like 10%, 15%..
[11:13] fibbles: Graphics? Hard to say, we're just starting off with that. Getting A1 to work was top priority...

[11:13] Hans-JoergF: Aren't the P96 guys working on P96 for AOS4?
[11:14] moood: Yes, among others.

[11:14] On the screenshots the window scroll up/down buttons take thier bevel from the general bevel setting (that's what it looks like anyway) whereas the rest of the window buttons are flat with a small indent between them, will you be able to change the up/down buttons so they look more like the flat buttons
[11:14] Uncharted: Can be configured separately...

[11:14] <_4pLaY_> Hans-JoergF: will there be any "goodies" on the OS4 cd not yet revealed perhaps in the contrib drawer?
[11:15] 4play: Yes, there will be a contrib drawer.

[11:15] is AREXX already ported to OS4 ?
[11:15] borchen: Arexx works, emulated. We don't have a source code licence for that. Replacement language-neutral scripting interface is scheduled for 4.1

[11:15] If you come up with something you think is useful who do you get it included in the contrib drawer?
[11:16] uncharted: Contributions are welcome. Contacts by email.

[11:16] Hans-JoergF: moovid will be in contrib drawer & full ver.?
[11:16] guru: Dunno.

[11:16] who own the arexx license? (IBM?)
[11:16] borchen: Dunno.

[11:16] now i can bay the aone but i dont know what gfx card i shoud bay to it becurse i dont now hvat os 4.0 gonna suport ?
[11:17] nostalgic: www.scitechsoft.com. Look for snap.

[11:17] Hans-JoergF: have you license to incluse Arexx binary?
[11:18] JoannaK: AFAIK, yes. It came with the OS 3.x binary licence AFAIK, which to the best of my knowledge is a valid one. I'm no lawyer though.

[11:18] how the LinuxPPC snap drivers are? doesn`t this make the first step to have Snap on OS4?
[11:19] Ami603: Can't say for sure without checking the current status. Should be fairly complete for LinuxPPC, conversion to OS 4/new OS will take about two weeks according to my info

[11:19] Is AREXX support to be continiued further on, i.e. 4.1 and 4.2?
[11:19] whabang: probably. Like I said it still runs emulated.

[11:19] Hans-JoergF: "Replacement language-neutral scripting interface"? Will it made use of neralnet.library by Timm S. Mueller?
[11:20] megatokai: Don't know that one. Still in planning


[11:20] What's going to happen about the DOpus licence, 68k in the contrib, PPC port in the contrib, seperate PPC Port, or will it be more closely invoved with the OS?
[11:20] Uncharted: DOpus magellan will be a separate product according to my current info.

[11:20] Hans-JoergF: a) Will there be a AmigaOS4 before Christmas? b) Will you make a small version of AmigaOS4 for mobile phones? In competition with SymbianOS and WindowsCE?
[11:21] AmiDelf: a) if it's done before christmas (I'm not going to play that game again b) Can't give you any info on that

[11:20] Hans-JoergF: Ok, so no PPC-native, then? Ever? Or is it just until better options are availible?
[11:21] whabang: PPC native OS 4 version, yes, but separately sold (Opus Magellan)

[11:20] Hans-JoergF: I remember in AmigaOS you could only have about 26 pt fonts.. with the new font engine, can you have big sizes like, 70-150pt ?
[11:21] fibbles: Fonts can have any size.

[11:21] Hans-JoergF: Poing or Breakout?
[11:22] AmiDELF: Klondike for me...

[11:22] I'm just back from dinner... maybe someoneelse asked this question already. Hans-JoergF, after cyberstorm and a1 version is done (as fas as software can be done will be a version/port for other hardware (e.g. Pegasos 2) possible?
[11:23] megatokai: Other hardware is always a possibility. It is up for licencing...

[11:22] Hans-JoergF: Any chance of a cool boing ball screen saver for AOS4?
[11:23] Mickey_C: I am thinking about a slideshow with your AW Avatar

[11:24] Hans-JoergF: Are the rumours of being chained up in Ben's basement for days on end, with little or no food to get the A1 version out true?
[11:24] Uncharted: Highly exaggerated. I'm not chained, it's just ropes...

[11:24] Hans-JoergF: sorry, I am not up to date - is AmigaOS4.0 going to get a decent native classic Amiga emulator (that at least works with applications?)?
[11:25] alef: UAE type of application is planned, but not undertaken.

[11:25] hans- will there be new desktop design or is it stille plan for os 4.2
[11:25] nostalgic: What do you mean with desktop design...? Workbench will not be replaced until 4.1 if that is what you mean...

[11:26] <_4pLaY_> Hans-JoergF: WB will be replaced? tell me more =)
[11:26] 4play: not before 4.1

[11:26] Hans-JoergF: if you yourself should be a) critical b) positive: How are you doing so far? Could things be better/worse?
[11:27] alef: Could always be better, of course, but I'm quite content with the progress...

[11:29] Hans-JoergF: is there a possibility to add new betatesters if they ask for an early SDK to start porting/creating native programs?
[11:29] Am603: Betatesters should mail us...

[11:29] Hans-JoergF: where can i get developer stuff, e.g. 68k->AOS4/PPC crosscompiler etc. I want to recompile my programs for AOS4 too, they compile fine on os3.x and MOS atm. I heard I must register as betatester to get access to the SDK files. Whouldn't it be nice to release it before AOS4 is released so that a lot native AOS4 software will be available on AOS4 release?
[11:30] megatokai: Currently, SDK is available to beta testers, and a few others.

[11:30] Hans-JoergF what info on that rewrite/new desktop in 4.1 can you give us ?
[11:30] slayerdk: No new Info, I'm sorry. Still "in development/planning stage"

[11:30] hans- have hyperion any thing to do with the os 5.0 fo you know iff there a startet on the projet yet
[11:31] nostalgic: Maybe, it's still a bit down the line.

[11:31] what does the OS4 SDK consist of?
[11:31] borchen: Compilers, toolkit, includes, and documentation. A few examples.

[11:32] Hans-JoergF: whould it be possible for me (maybe after signing a NDA) to get the SDK too? Or is it atm. not possible?
[11:32] metatokai: Write me personally.

[11:32] Hans-JoergF: Any rivalry between you and Thomas, to see who can do the coolest features etc?
[11:32] Uncharted: No

[11:34] Hans-JoergF: did you get AE4 running on the A1?
[11:35] DaveAE: Didn't get the time to install it anymore before leaving, and didn't get the driver to compile. Sorry

[11:34] Hans-JoergF: Is Roadshow a liberary, or is it a program that's loaded on boot up?
[11:35] Eric_Z: Roadshow is a library. libs:bsdsocket.library

[11:35] I would like to hear the answer of nostalgic's question
[11:35] me too

[11:35] Hans-JoergF: I bet that aos4 on any mobile, would kick going arround in the city with Nokia 3650 with AmigaOS4lite instead of SymbianOS would be nice!

[11:36] [12:35:55] are there a os 4.0 web site done allready or is it somethink your are workning on
[11:36] alef/nostalgic: Nothing done there yet. First OS4 then the web site

[11:37] Hans-JoergF: I really like the AmigaOS's simple structure (c: devs: libs: etc.) will things be changing in ther near future
[11:37] Uncharted: No, not very likely...

[11:38] Hans-JoergF: GCC can be a real pain to get started, particularly if you aren't familiar to UNIX, can you tell us if the version in the OS4 NDK will be any easier to get started with?
[11:39] Uncharted: It's "plug and play". vbcc is also available already for those that don't want GCC.

[11:39] Hans-JoergF, thomas: please allow me a private question. How can Idistinguish you both? I never know if it's you Hans-JoergF or you Thomas.
[11:40] megatokai: That's a secret. Harharhar

[11:39] on what kind of system are you developing OS4?
[11:40] borchen: Mostly cross-compling from x86 linux box. Makes it easier because you don't have to wait for reboot on the Amiga(s)

[11:40] megatokai: That's easy, you can tell by rge colour of thier lightsabres
[11:40] Uncharted: May the force be with you!

[11:41] Hans-JoergF: please just dont go into any Commodore/SEGA trap again..
[11:41] AmiDELF: we're trying to be careful. Of course, we do need mainstream market shares...

[11:41] Uncharted: hmm... not so easy. light sabers aren't worn-out all the time.
[11:41] megatokai: I never switch mine off. The sound is so nice...

[11:42] can you give os a date off os 4.0 not the fammos (when its done) 3 months or 5/6 months ??
[11:42] nostalgic: "When it's done" is the only date I dare to give... Don't feed the... you know who...

[11:42] there is AmIDE that could be tweaked to use new versions of GCC and get the benefit of GDB debugger
[11:42] is opensource iirc(or GPL not sure)
[11:42] Ami603: No ide yet. To be written (by anyone)
[11:42] Ami603: Yes, I think it is available on source forge

[11:42] any chance on a 'visual' IDE for OS4 ?
[11:43] borchen: H&P was looking for someone to port StormC, so there is a chance. Other than that, we'll have to see.

[11:42] Hans-JoergF: do you know of the status of the AC 97 audio drivers?

[11:43] Hans-JoergF: can u tell us how far os4 is now in %? ca.?
[11:44] megatokai: Not really. How do you define it? If it's by time, I'd say somewhere in the high 90ies... But it's not easy to say.
[11:44] megatokai: "Almost done"
[11:45] megatokai: Yes, the first 90% are fun. The second 90% aren't
[11:45] megatokai: But it *IS* almost done.

[11:45] about the 5.0 do you know how there gonna make that os 4.0 suport (is it gonna be emolation or something else
[11:46] nostalgic: OS 5 is still under planning. Can't say much about it. The major feature plans are still in place.


[11:47] oki.. look at SEGA.. they failed with Dreamcast. Why? Because they believed so much in their product. Never promoting anywhere. I didnt see 1 advert or promotion for Dreamcast here in Norway at all on TV. The same thing with Amiga. They all believed too much in their products. Promotion/markeds, it really shows that the company is interested in customers.
[11:48] AmiDelf: Marketing is certainly an important point. Thankfully, I don't have to care about that

[11:48] Hans-JoergF: just dont go over to 68k
[11:48] AmiDelf: *shudder*

[11:49] Hans-JoergF: Hows the OS 4.0 version of MooVid coming along?
[11:49] fibbles: Currently emulated only, but porting C source code is generally not much of a problem.
[11:49] fibbles: AFAIK port has just started.

[11:50] Hans-JoergF: Is the MooVid GUI going to be changed to look more OS4-like?
[11:51] mood: Dunno. Probably.

[11:52] Hans-JoergF: What do you do to kick back and relax when you're not working on OS4?
[11:53] Uncharted: I never relax Ok, I play Jedi Academy and Ghost Recon atm...

[11:52] Hans-JoergF: do u have any contacts to the original C= AmigaOS team? maybe for knowledge exchange etc.?
[11:53] megatokai: Some of them are available if we have questions...

[11:53] hans- can you tell a bit off what the nova is i have only read some lines on it
[11:54] nostalgic: NOVA will be the next generation of Warp3D. Shader-Centric (making fixed pipeline a special case), but still in planning (you guessed it
[11:54] nostalgic: Somewhat like a cross between DX9 and OGL2. We intend to use a compatible shader language like OpenGL 2)

[11:54] any chance of a DIVX datatype in OS4 (a mini-itx board & OS4 would be a nice mediacentre to connect to my TV)
[11:55] borchen: Datatypes are scheduled for rewrite/redesign in AG2.

[11:54] Hans-JoergF: Whats left to do for OS 4.0?
[11:55] just p96 and graphics.library + bugfixes?
[11:55] fibbles: Mainly move P96 yo PPC. and bugfixes, you guessed it. A few open ends, nothing serious.

[11:55] Hans-JoergF: that's nice. btw, do u plan to include MEmacsin OS4 again? I know it's a very old Application and rather useless today... but it keeps this nice historical flair. The spirit of the old days.
[11:56] megatokai: They'll get memacs when they pry it out of my cold dead hands Memacs is cool because it needs practically no system.

[11:55] Hans-JoergF: How much money do you really need for be finished before Christmas?
[11:56] AmiDelf: I don't think this can be measured in money...

[11:56] add an 'old-fashion' DIVX datatype to OS4 will be VERY appreciated...
[11:56] borchen: We'll see. None planned ATM, though.

[11:56] hans, do you have plan for an os 4.0 video presentasion
[11:57] nostalgic: Not on this show. Later, maybe. Dunno. Hope I don't need to do it...

[11:57] Hans-JoergF: Drivers can be a real killer for OSes, SNAP solves the GFX problem, have you any plans/stratagies about other driver (printers/USB etc.)?
[11:58] Uncharted: yes. USB is obviously handled by TGF. Printers, dunno. We have some possible solutions.

[11:58] TGF?
[11:58] megatokai: Thomas Graff Thoeger (hope I didn't spell his name wrong

[11:58] is there USB memory-stick support in OS4?
[11:59] borchen: Dunno about the state of support for that. I would need to check that.
[11:59] ok...booting from an USB stick would be 'cool'...
[12:00] borchen: Definitely. I dunno if u-boot supports it, though, didn't try. It has USB storage support, but only two protocols.

[12:01] Hans-JoergF: ah... i first thought it's the USB Stack for OS4 Why did u choosed a new system and not a system which is already developed and polished over the years. IMHO Poseidon is USB standard on Amiga. Why u didn't choosed poseidon?
[12:02] megatokai: Yes, TGF is doing exactly that Poseidon, dunno, there was some communication problem with the authors that, in retrospect, no one can explain really. I think that TGF and team are doing a good job, though.
[12:03] megatokai: We tried to contact them, but got no reply so assumed they would not be interested. But apparently something went wrong and nothing got through... Don't ask for details, though...

[12:03] dialed wrong number?
[12:03] borchen: A bit more complicated...

[12:03] Hans-JoergF: pity. It had could save money and a lot of development time.
[12:04] megatokai: Probably. I still think that the result will be good...

[12:05] Hans-JoergF: what's the state of MP in the first OS4 release? How much protection does it give, how much does it affect stability?
[12:05] Uncharted: Limited memory protection for code, and unused memory. More detailed reply would take too long
[12:06] Uncharted: Of course it will make bad programs crash, but it will prevent others from being taken down so easily.

[12:05] * Father_Jack wants UT for his A1
[12:06] * Hans-JoergF too

[12:08] Yeah...it would be nice to get HalfLife2 also...but who has the money & development team?
[12:09] borchen: Forget about Halflife... There's more than "just" money involved.

[12:09] Hans-JoergF: well. Half Life is out for Dreamcast even
[12:10] AmiDelf: Yes, but not for the Mac... And that's HL1.

[12:16] Quake is being demoed on OS 4.0 atm isnt it
[12:16] fibbles: yup.

[12:16] Hans-JoergF: Is the boot-process (of OS4 and uboot) on the Aone going to be text-based or graphical?
[12:16] mood: mostly text.


[12:17] Hans-JoergF: To make the boot faster?
[12:18] mood: No, just really this is what u-boot outputs. We might add something fancy later. Getting it done (tm) is more important, though

[12:18] about networking to other computeres on the os 4.0 is it gonna be maimi and shamba/ amiftp,???
[12:18] nostalgic: Network layer is Roadshow by Olaf Barthel. Samba - should become contributed software

[12:19] Hans-JoergF: isn't olaf doing sambe too? maybe it could fully integrated then?
[12:20] --- Blomberg has changed the topic to: Hans Joerg Frieden - ask your questions (Kees can't spell )
[12:20] megatokai: Not if he can help it No, Samba is done by someone else. Dunno if he wants that to be known, so I don't mention names...

[12:20] Hans-JoergF: Once OS4 is complete would you use it as your "main" machine?
[12:21] Uncharted: Absolutely. I'm slightly fed up with Linux, really (no offence linux fans)

[12:21] Hans-JoergF: ah... okay. I didn't knew this. But AFAIK 68k samba was ported in large parts by Olaf.
[12:22] megatokai: Yes, that is why Olaf wants to avoid having anything to do with it...

[12:23] Hans-JoergF: If you could change one thing about how you approached making OS 4 what would it be?
[12:23] Is there anything you'd do differently?
[12:23] Uncharted: If I could change one thing, I would start at least five years earlier. So much time has been wasted before...

[12:26] Hans-JoergF: on U-boot specs you say that boot with SCSI 53C8xx is possible, does that means that there will be at some point drivers for these cards?
[12:26] On OS4 side i mean
[12:27] Ami603: Most likely. Booting works already, and general support for script-based controllers is in the works. It works on the CSPPC SCSI controller already.

[12:28] Hans-JoergF: is AmigaOS4 booting in 5 seconds like MorphOS, or?
[12:29] AmiDELF: 10 seconds at the moment. Driver is a bit slow still.

[12:29] OK, that's it folks. See you on the forums.