New pirate eBay goods: demo DVD

[j_tramiel]

Hmmm, I read this thread after I was informed of it and COULDN'T BELIEVE what the first 3 people who posted were spouting about!!!

Amiga Demos were released into the Public Domain, I am not even offering the code for sale, I am offering a nostalgic bit of video.  So please explain how this is piracy?

As for my other Amiga related DVD, well its full of PUBLIC DOMAIN software.  No kickstart roms, no commercial games, just PD from my personal stash, that I decided to convert into ADF's and create a compilation, heck there are even some of my own PD creations on there.  So just what is your problem here?

The only reason I have them listed at such a cost is to cover listing fees, paypal fees, media costs, postage costs, printing costs and of course my own hard work that went into these.

It was supposed to be a kind of service for people who had Amigas in the old days, but didn't have the means of reliving their youth, by which I mean an Amiga / Emulator and the demo files.  You must remember, not everyone who loved the Amiga and the Demo Scene is still 1337, many people wouldn't have the first idea about running an emulator or even creating a DVD.

And another thing, the whole essence of the Demo Scene was to show off what you could make an Amiga do and things like this can only help to spread the word about the talents of the demo coders.

There, thats my rant over.

I really cannot see what your problem is here, and whats more I seem to be getting blamed for single-handedly bringing down the Commodore empire!!

Its people like you 3 that actually damage the scene, because everyone is sh*t-scared of being called a theif / pirate / etc..

PS  I didn't even know about this Mindcandy thing until I read it here.  I made a similar thing on VHS back in the mid 90's and thought it would be cool to do a more up to date one using the technology of the day.  Who says though, that my DVD and the Mindcandy DVD's cannot exist in the same market?  Aren't we living in a democracy where freedom of choice is the order of the day.

Whups, I'm ranting again.  Sorry for the length of this post, but I just had to get it off my chest.

Thanks for reading, I will shut up now.

[j_tramiel]

Well actually I am the creator of the DVD, I didn't just download it I spent a weekend making it, and was so pleased with the outcome, I decided to sell it.

All of the demos have their credits intact, so I am not claiming credit for them as my own either.

[j_tramiel]

Yes, I did consider that actually.
These programs were not downloaded from Aminet, they were sourced from PD houses back in the mid-nineties, like I said they are all from my personal PD collection.  These files all came from legitimate PD houses who distributed them on disks for 2 to 3 pounds each.

As such I can vouch with quite a bit of certainty that the content on my DVD is freely distributable.

Isn't this discussion all getting a bit pedantic and silly now?

Why don't you go and hound some pirates or something, and get off my goddamn case?

[j_tramiel]

But taking their content and moving it another medium to try to sell it without their approval is lame.

The whole point of the demo scene was to spread the productions, if you can't get your head around that you are obviously missing the whole point of the scene.  PD doesnt need approval, it belongs to the public.  The original credits are there, whats the problem?

You had five DVDs listed at 4 GBP each, 20 GBP total, approximately $35 USD right now. There's no way it costs that much to burn five discs and mail them (discs only) to people in your own country. You were offering them for 1 GBP to your friends at the other forum, and you turned down someone else who asked about it and told them to buy it from you on eBay.

When was the last time you sold anything on ebay?  It isn't free you know!  Listing fees are a couple of quid (for a decent ad), they take a cut from every sale, Paypal take a cut from every sale, postage, media, printing.... it does add up you know.  I offered my mates one for a quid each at a loss (because they are mates).

If you're just trying to show off what you can do with the Amiga and spreading the word about the talents of demo coders, why not make use of this big distribution center for bits called the Internet? You could spread it around without selling it. Why not do it?

Totally lost the plot there didn't you?  I never claimed that I made the demos!  I wasn't showing off anything, I was helping to spread great demos (which is what they were created for).  I am using the Internet (ebay aint on a fu**ing BBS you know).  I was only selling for the work I put into it.

Like I said, you are a hypocrite, you complain because I sell something I took the trouble to make, but if I offered it to you as a free download we wouldn't get a peep out of you.  You are only {bleep}ing because you don't want to pay.  Well if you don't want to pay for it, you aint getting it, simple eh?

[j_tramiel]

This thread is getting ridiculous, but I don't have a problem with someone offering it as an ISO download.  Like I said previously, its aimed at people who don't have the know-how to use emulators, people who have lost their disks, etc.  

I would be pissed off with someone reselling it as their own work with a huge price tag, of course I would, don't be so facetious.  I am not and have never claimed that the demos were coded by me.  Why do you think the listing had a contents list that said who the coding groups were responsible for each production?  Get your facts straight before you start bad-mouthing people.

It's not like I'm ripping anyone off, or taking their livelihood is it?  I simply made a video of my favourite demos for old times sake, and I thought other people would like it too.

I had considered offering it as a download, but judging by the amount of knobs like you in the community, I shan't bother.

[j_tramiel]

Regardless, it does not cost 4 GBP/$7 USD to burn a disc and post it locally, even with eBay and other fees. In USD, the insertion fee would be $0.35, the buy-it-now $0.05, the final value fee $0.37, PayPal fee $0.49, the envelope $0.50, and the postage $1.10 (assuming the disc is in a jewel case). That leaves 2.36 GBP/$4.14 USD extra.

If you had even bothered looking at the ebay listing before spouting off you would have seen that my ad contained 3 supresize pics, and a thumbnail gallery listing, this cost about £2 to list.  Get your facts straight!

But you're trying to spread them by selling them. They're not yours to sell.

Public Domain means released into the public, they now belong to the public and the authors have relinquished their rights (look at the works of Shakespeare, nobody complains at book companies selling his work)  Get your facts straight!

You did not make any of the content. You used WinUAE to create AVIs of the demos, and you used some ready-made software to create menus and burn it all to DVD. That does not entitle you to sell it, and you very well know that you wouldn't be able to sell your work if you didn't have any content to add value to it

I never went anywhere near WinUAE, all the demos were captured using an external MPEG encoder hooked up to a real Amiga.  Get your facts straight!

You said that you just want to spread great demos. There are plenty of other ways to spread them without selling them. There are numerous other fan compilation DVDs out there that can be downloaded right now, so distribution via the Internet is not a problem.

You are forgetting that not everyone has the ability or knowledge to download and burn DVD's.  Just because you know how to do something, don't assume everyone else can do it too.  Get your facts straight!

Your demand that you be paid for it indicates that you're not just a fan trying to create something interesting for others to enjoy, it indicates that you are trying to make money. QED.

DEMAND?  I don't demand anything, if you want it pay for it, if you don't.... well don't.

Did I say I was a Fan giving away freebies?? No. Of course I want to make money (but just a small amount for my trouble)  noones gonna get rich selling this type of cr*p are they now?  10-15 year old sprites jumping around the screen... get real, wake up and smell the coffee.

And its not like I am stealing anyones livelihood, or robbing anyone of business is it now.  Get your facts straight!

Honestly, this is pathetic, what possible reason would you or anyone else here have for taking such offence at this harmless bit of fun?

[j_tramiel]

Hallelujah!
Someone with some sense.

Most of the members here will probably be pleased to know that ebay removed my listing because someone reported it as piracy.

(and I never even sold any, so haha, have a good laugh at that)

Absolutely pathetic!

[j_tramiel]

Jesus, why can't anybody understand that the WHOLE POINT of demos was to SPREAD them!

Piracy my arse.

90% of the coders for these demos were involved in the piracy scene (cracktro's etc,) anyway.

Unbe-flipping-lieveable!

I wasn't spreading the demos, I was spreading Video of the demos.

You don't see the whole gorilla population queueing up to sue David Attenborough for making videos of them without getting their permission do you?

[j_tramiel]

Well that settles it then...

IF YOU DISTRIBUTE DEMOS YOU ARE A PIRATE!

I'm so glad that is clear now, I hope you are all taking notice.

Can I just end this silly thread by bringing your attention to this:

[j_tramiel]

Hehe, I'm not wasting my time with you losers any more.

Sitting there all high and mighty, even though your hard drives are full of ripped .adf's and stuff.

like I said, its pathetic.

You can be safe in the knowledge that this DVD will never see the light of day thanks to this forum.  So, why carry on arguing.

you won, feels good?

goodbye

[j_tramiel]

Jesus, I can't believe they are still harping on about this!

Funny how some people have absolutely no life at all.

Anyway, just looking back at what that idiot Piru has posted:

You need to make a distinction between actual copyrighted pictures, and pictures of copyrighted work (something else than a picture). These are two different things.

Hmm, well that equates to my DVD:  I am not distributing the code (which is what any copyright would apply to), but moving images of the output from the code, a bit like a screenshot of a game (yep, fair use then!)

Also,

Pictures of hardware are copyright by the person taking the photo.

So, I used my hardware to take a moving 'photo' of the demos, therefore I own the copyright to the 'moving photos' (videos).

haha, he is talking absolute cack, and has basically just agreed that I hold the copyright to the videos I made.

(as I suspected, the guy's a tool!)  :lol:

PS: Thank you lando... you are about the only person around here that is displaying any common sense whatsoever.