Faulty Gfx card? - Random "noise" lines on screen

[Hodgkinson]

Hi all,
I've just bought a new graphics card (Ok, its an AGP board for my PC, but Amiga's can also use graphics cards?) and every now and then I get what appears to be a line of noise across the screen, the same kinda thing as if you have a analogue TV and a noisy thermostat kicks in somewhere in the house - I've only ever noticed it at the same point about 1/4 the way down the screen. The old graphics card never did this, and the PSU (550W) should be more than enough to run the system.
The hardware GPU core temperature monitor never exceeds ~40C, and that’s with an additional "bay cooler" fan positioned beneath the heatsink on the card (No fan when supplied, but I thought it might be worthwhile to do anyway).
I’m using the latest drivers for the card, and the BIOS settings are set as close as I can get them to match the cards specification (It’s a fairly old system, so I can only get close to the popper settings)

Could this be a sign of an error or hardware fault within the Gfx cards GPU?

Advice appreciated,
Hodgkinson.

@Moderators - Please feel free to move this thread if necessary - I felt that if it is a hardware issue that it may be of benefit to any computer system; PC or Amiga (Besides, the warranty on the card won’t last that long).

[Hodgkinson]

Underclock? I can't say that I've seen settings for that anywhere yet. Ideas? The board is this one (And from this company):
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?NOV-GF6225

It should be capable of AGP 8x, but the BIOS AGP speed only goes up to 4x and the driver is reporting the card running at only 2x.

The problem certainly is hard to pin down, even to just notice. I've only seen it when pottering around in XP's desktop, but Im guessing* that it might still be occurring in games etc. Mind you, it's hard to notice when you're trying to land a 747 at Heathrow :-D

I presume that this is probably a hardware fault, though? If it is, im getting a replacement (Shame, it's a nice little card).

[Hodgkinson]

There's plenty of airflow in the case...
-PSU + Rear case fan + Bay fan blow out at the back
-Front case fan + 2 small fans in HDD caddy blow in at the front.

I don't remember seeing any IC's on the opposite side of the board, so I assume that the RAM is somewhere under the heatsink, even if its bonded to the heatsink or not there's the additional bay fan (Can't think of a better way to describe it) right next to the Gfx card, sucking air over and past the heatsink area. The GPU core is struggling to reach 40C, so im guessing maybe a manufacturing fault somewhere?

EDIT: Ah, Rkauer had the same idea re the "slot" fan with this A3000T.

[Hodgkinson]

Ah, it’s DVI->Adaptor->VGA Monitor at the moment. I'll give the other connector a test run. Oh, a trial showed that the outputs are separate to one another, e.g., extended desktop can be implemented with this card... (/Me wonders if this is standard these days...)

Thanks,
Hodgkinson.

[Hodgkinson]

Right then.

Just the other day I saw the GFX problem again, although this time accompanied by audible clicks from the speakers.
Hence, I’m wondering if the Q-Tec 550W PSU is suffering (CD-Reader, DVD Burner, 2x 80Gb HDD's, 7 fans total (!), PCI modem, PCI sound, PCI USB2.0, 2x 3.5" floppy, and the below Gfx card).

I've got a £40 Amazon voucher to use up. I'd like an extra 100W, and there is some "Atrix" 650W/720W PSU's that look interesting.
Now, we’ve always bought cheap PSU’s (~£20) over the years, and as a result we don’t really know what brand would be considered for decent, reliable PSUs.

Suggestions, folks?  :-D

[Hodgkinson]

True, efficiency is an issue, but I assumed that the efficiency figure was based on the power being drawn from the PSU as opposed to that which the PSU is rated at?

Qtec as a good brand? I wouldn't of guessed judging by their prices alone...(The one in there at the minute is a Qtec)

One other one that im looking at is a Ezcool 650W...

[Hodgkinson]

Would it be worth while downrating and going for, say, a Thermaltake 420W?
EDIT: How about this one?

On a similar note, would anyone trust this PSU? (New seller in particular)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pimp-My-Player-1124-Micro/dp/B001B1X3Q0/ref=sr_1_41?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1214133696&sr=1-41
(Eg, say to run a 2GB SCSI HDD, SCSI DAT Tape and SCSI HP CD Burner?)

[Hodgkinson]

The 500W (Actually 450W rebadged) ThermalTake PSU arrived the other day and I've swapped out the old one. Surprisingly, the old PSU looked in good shape inside. I was under the impression it was a Q-Tec, but it was actually a ColoursIT PSU.

Let's hope this new PSU fixes the problem.

PS. I’m kinka pleased how well the wiring has tidied up inside. Might upload one or two photos (On my own site) ;-)

EDIT (Large-ish images):
http://www.booni.info/downloads/PC_Wiring.jpg
http://www.booni.info/downloads/PC_Wiring_Close.jpg

[Hodgkinson]

Thanks for the replies.

If it were solely interference related, I'd of expected to see it before I started beefing-up the system, whereas im my case it only started appearing afterwards, which is why im suspecting the PSU so much.
The screen is a Sony Trinitron MultiScan E500 CRT, and with using either the DVI output (Via adaptor to VGA) or the straight VGA output yields the same problem (Granted, I haven't actually tried DVI yet, but I'd have to yoink a LCD off another system for a good couple of days to test it).

Re voltages, the card has both the 1.5v and 3.3v keys, so I assume it should work quite happily (I read that the mobo is AGP 4x max from the manual, and hear that its only 2x max from the previous owner).

EDIT: I’m surprised that no-one's commented on the idle HDD in the bottom of the tower in the photos :crazy:

[Hodgkinson]

Here's the links (Large-ish images):
http://www.booni.info/downloads/PC_Wiring.jpg
http://www.booni.info/downloads/PC_Wiring_Close.jpg
Nope, there not of the symptom - Just of the new PSU installed and how the fans are rigged up (The only way to capture the problem would be to have a camera running for a good couple of hours on a tripod).

By "Beefing-Up" I mean new GFX card, new HDD, extra fans (Numerous, depending on where you look...), internal modem, and swapping an old CD-Writer for a DVD-Writer. Quite a bit of stuff, actually.
It hasn't been that hot here this summer (And neither as wet as last year, god forbid). The air-con machine we have hasn't been used these last couple of years, mainly 'cause it uses that much power. I doubt many other people would be using one at the minute either, and the PC/Monitor/Stuff runs via a surge-protected strip anyway.

The line flashes for an instant on the screen, and appears to consist of what could be described as white noise. I only used to notice it at the same part of the screen, but the other day I saw it further down.

Heh, I checked the rail voltages of the new PSU in the BIOS and with a multimeter. The BIOS readouts are utterly useless. I mean, the +12v was 12.05v on a multimeter, and the BIOS said that it was more than half a volt out! Sometimes, you can see the value jumping between one and another, and the last couple of digits are completely meaningless due to the magnitude of the quantisation error. Not only that, but I went out and bought a new fan just so that I could make use of the case fan RPM sense function of the motherboard. Turns out that the fan runs too slow for the bios to register (As you might be able to read down the edge of the clear fan in the photos). That also took some figuring out and a lot a messing around with spare CPU coolers and oscilloscopes.

If the new power supply doesn't fix the problem, I'll be sure to have a look around for a test utility. I actually asked the manufacturers if they had one and they never answered that part of the question. Sigh. :roll:

[Hodgkinson]

You see those big clumps of caps near the processor? If I remember rightly the reason why we were given the board was because the original caps were leaking. That's our repair job (Including the rather more concerning point that all the caps that we used there are not low-ESR - The only ones we had - Whereas the originals were low-ESR).

My dad recently bought a new dual-core mobo and tried to get 32-Bit XP to work on the 64-Bit processor (Using something called a HAL Refresh). Now all he's got left of the system is a ghost image from a few months back. I ain't trying that trick again :crazy:
On a similar note, I’m afraid I’m similarly inclined with regards to BIOS updates - From what we've heard there a last-minute resort if nothing else works, and are prone to ruining systems (Well, the last firmware update - As included on the CD and instructed in the manual - Made my MP4 player revert to Spanish menu's every time it was turned on. Fortunately I could take that one back for a refund)

BTW, I think the original GFX card was a GeForce MX440 64MB.

Heh, on the subject of stuff not working, whenever you use the onboard USB, the machine never powers-off the PSU. Windows shuts down and there's a click, but the PSU stays on - Every single time. Don’t use the on-board USB, and it powers-off fine (Guessing it’s also a BIOS issue…).
On the other hand, the USB2.0 card (A £6 board + front panel package) in there seems to be prone to errors. Normal documents it handles fine, but if you transfer a video, occasionally half of the odd frame might turn white or you get clicks in the audio track.

[Hodgkinson]

Thanks for the informative post!

Oh dear :-( The 686B issue could explain a lot of things - Including games being unreliable on my miggy, as a matter of fact...
(PCI Network card in this PC...), as well as a dud network transfer the other day...
Any idea whether a list of affected VIA 686B's exists?

BTW, The USB card is an ALi chip, M5273 A1.

I've checked the MSI (The manufacturer) BIOS Updates for the mobo and they don't mention anything about the VIA issue. Mind you, from what I've read the BIOS only becomes an issue if the manufacturers tried to make their own work-around for the problem.
Although im afraid that im still not inclined to perform a BIOS update (It’s not the value of the board that’s the problem, its the fact that it would all have to be rebuilt if something went wrong...) I could try a full Ghost backup of the system (Remember that new HDD? It's mounted in a caddy and is intended for this kinda thing) followed by a VIA drivers update. Might fix the slow UDMA mode speeds (3 At most...) at the same time...

Re the voltages, true, I wasn't measuring them at the monitoring chip.

I'll see if I can run a Ghost backup tomorrow and see if the VIA driver set helps.

Ah, this video RAM test looks pretty good:
http://mikelab.kiev.ua/index_en.php?page=PROGRAMS/vmt_en
Might give that a try, too.

Hodgkinson.

[Hodgkinson]

I've installed the up-to-date motherboard drivers from the MSI website. I’m not quite sure what they've done yet (Though a few new things have appeared in device manager)...I'll have to wait and find out (Just spotted a flash USB-test utility on the mikelab website, that could be useful...).

As for the RAM test, everything seems OK. I might give the self-booting variant a try.

Hodgkinson.

[Hodgkinson]

The RAM test (In windows) showed no errors ;-) I’ve not spotted any of these flickers (Yet) with the new PSU.

I've also tried the USB flash test utility from the site - Although I've only experienced the file transfer errors with my USB camera on the USB2.0 card, as you'd probably imagine I don't want to wear out the camera just yet so I've been using a standard Toshiba 2GB memory stick for the tests. Also, the camera (Windows?) doesn’t allow files to be moved back onto it.
No errors showed up in that test, and I've also just moved a 10MB AVI video on and off the stick a 1000 times using a batch file and the video seems to be fine. I’m now running a ~20MB video that previously suffered from corruption once when being transferred at USB2.0 from the camera through the batch file test routine.

I guess I really should of remembered to run these tests before updating the drivers, I suppose :-(

EDIT: 20MB Video test also fine. Ran file compare on all files and no errors reported (Execpt for when I compared a corrupted file I saved from a while back, that did show differences :-D )

Hodgkinson.