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Author Topic: PAULA MIDI SYNTH BOX Like SID BOX?  (Read 17148 times)

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Offline freqmax

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Re: PAULA MIDI SYNTH BOX Like SID BOX?
« on: October 08, 2013, 03:02:22 AM »
Paula is a plain D/A chip with two butterworth filters. It doesn't offer anything special. The SID has custom and rare "faulty" chip die with a special sound.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 03:08:18 AM by freqmax »
 

Offline freqmax

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Re: PAULA MIDI SYNTH BOX Like SID BOX?
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2013, 09:25:22 AM »
If it ain't better than a FPGA + D/A then it's not worthwhile. Said combination can also do filters in the digital domain. And at that point the Amiga custom chip loose.

The SID 6581 might worthwhile to reimplement. And then it better be done this way to be worthwhile at all:
Quote from: enwp: MOS Technology SID
The PhoenixSID 65X81 project (2006) aimed to faithfully create the SID sound using modern hardware. The workings of a SID chip were recreated on an FPGA, based on interviews with the SID's creator, original datasheets, and comparisons with real SID chips. It was distinguished from similar attempts by its use of real analog circuitry instead of emulation for the legendary SID filter. However, the project was discontinued, because George Pantazopoulos, who was the head of this project, died on April 23, 2007, at the age of 29.
 

Offline freqmax

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Re: PAULA MIDI SYNTH BOX Like SID BOX?
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2013, 05:55:24 PM »
Perhaps they were coding for the  6502/m68k CPU when their best learning window was open.. ;)
 

Offline freqmax

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Re: PAULA MIDI SYNTH BOX Like SID BOX?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2013, 10:03:48 PM »
Quote from: minator;749613
Paula can do:
Sample playback.
Loop playback - it's an oscillator.
If the 68K changes the waveform it's looping you get wavetable synthesis (think PPG synths).
Modulation of channels with AM and/or FM so:
- FM synthesis.
- AM synthesis.
- FM + AM synthesis.
Non-DMA playback. The processor to produces waveforms on the fly any way it pleases - You could set up the Amiga as a soft synth before soft synths were invented!


A FPGA + D/A or a x86-PC with a bus connected sound card can do the same. The Amiga was great but it can all be done with easier to get hardware now.
 

Offline freqmax

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Re: PAULA MIDI SYNTH BOX Like SID BOX?
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2013, 05:40:42 AM »
@Iggy, What's so bad about the AC97 spec? and what makes OPL3 so good?

@commodorejohn, What's wrong with ROMplers?

Btw, I feel that it weren't until the 90's that artists learnt to make good use of synthezisers.

Wonder what the 63C09E is. Seems to be a3 MHz CPU with 8/16/32-bit registers.

Oh and if Amiga OS had forced programmers to work via drivers it would been so slow it hadn't taken of ;)
30 minutes to decode 100 kB jpeg image, sirup-slow interpretation of a C-coded C-code comment parser I coded etc. Guess the chip-ram + low-ram combo did it's part..


Is there anything one can make these days that would make a huge difference?
 

Offline freqmax

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Re: PAULA MIDI SYNTH BOX Like SID BOX?
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2013, 08:20:31 AM »
What demands do you think a sufficient computer audio standard should place?

There might been a minority artists that knew their stuff but perhaps not the music industry at large.
 

Offline freqmax

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Re: PAULA MIDI SYNTH BOX Like SID BOX?
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2013, 02:17:30 AM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;749632
The music industry at large has never known its ass from its elbow, man. /../
A sufficient computer audio standard shouldn't be a standard at all, basically. There should be some basic standard capabilities,

Lets put it this way, any music you could access by listening to radio or buying records. There were even special shops for those weird "imported records" for people that wasn't satisfied with the industry marketed and spoon fed stuff. It took until the 90s before they presented synthesizer music that was good. Internet = many ribbons of red tape and capacity measured in kbit/s .. ;)

When I think audio standard, I think more in terms of S/P-dif with at least 96 ksp/s 20-bit. Otoh, via USB one can connect any audio stuff one can think of. But USB is in my opinion half-duplex singled ended over complicated piece-of-crap.

The nice thing is that nowadays it's economically possible to bring one's one hardware to do more or less anything one can imagine. I had some ideas along pick-and-place and analog hardware that would make chips not manufactured possible and avoid the whole ASIC deal.


As for the 6502, it certainly lacks many features and is slow. But it was delivered 7 times cheaper than 6800 and changed the market. Delivered by ûbergeek Peddle and hand drawings ;)
Seems also that both the VIC-II and SID were created with the mantra "everything good that is on the market into our chip", and it succeeded.

Dunnu why Amiga fans are CPU focused. Perhaps it's because the instruction set stays but the peripherals vary?

@hairy, Silicon is cheap these days..
 

Offline freqmax

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Re: PAULA MIDI SYNTH BOX Like SID BOX?
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2013, 07:01:13 AM »
There are still some geographical areas that are retarded .. You seem to have been spared ;)

Oxygène, Équinoxe, etc.. could be found if you asked the broadcasters what did you play at time X on channel Y to even find the artist, and then went around to record shops praying for luck.
 

Offline freqmax

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Re: PAULA MIDI SYNTH BOX Like SID BOX?
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2013, 12:51:06 AM »
SID was an real good synthesizer and perhaps something Amiga missed. And Paula was perhaps just a D/A but it had DMA to add and beat the competition like 286 with single square oscillator...... ;)

Jay Miner knew his stuff and made good design decisions. That Commodore management lacked the insight to build a long feature on this platform is another story.
 

Offline freqmax

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Re: PAULA MIDI SYNTH BOX Like SID BOX?
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2013, 01:12:48 AM »
That means there's more than plain D/A and standard analog filter. So could anyone describe what's special in technical terms?

(oh and what technically made C64 ceramic SID special would be interesting too)
 

Offline freqmax

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Re: PAULA MIDI SYNTH BOX Like SID BOX?
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2013, 02:35:52 AM »
@Amiga_Nut, What did the ES5503 chip cost in 1986?

I think @magnetic is on the spot. It's the distortion that makes the music. It's not a bug, it's a feature.. as they say. It reminds of the VICE emulator for C64 implementing analog PAL distortion to make the colours look alright.

So the question becomes. What is the technical quantification of the distortion?

Perhaps someone could feed a digital test stream from a PC into the Amiga-Paula chip and sample the output with a precision A/D to measure the distortion.
 

Offline freqmax

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Re: PAULA MIDI SYNTH BOX Like SID BOX?
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2013, 03:53:45 AM »
Alright so we have:
 * Aliasiing artifacts (high frequency and ringing?)
 * Non-linear frequency cut off
 * Different phase displacement per frequency

I guess one has to settle for a good enough simulation.
 

Offline freqmax

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Re: PAULA MIDI SYNTH BOX Like SID BOX?
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2013, 04:12:58 AM »
As long as there exist a real thing to begin with..

Designs usually survives the hardware ;)
 

Offline freqmax

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Re: PAULA MIDI SYNTH BOX Like SID BOX?
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2013, 09:24:23 PM »
Build your own synth(tm) ? ;)

(and run circles around the commercial ones..)
 

Offline freqmax

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Re: PAULA MIDI SYNTH BOX Like SID BOX?
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2013, 01:47:10 PM »
Usually it's a lot of propietary mess for such applications..

Otoh, one could remove the MCU and wire the I/O pads to the Amiga for that cool gadget function. Different .mod music depending on the washing phase ;)