Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: FPGA for dummies  (Read 59709 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline freqmax

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 2179
    • Show all replies
Re: FPGA for dummies
« on: December 06, 2011, 06:44:51 AM »
Most chips digital chips consists of a bunch of transistors wired in a way that makes them used in a way where they are either fully on or off. Wires can't be changed inside a chip. But a bigger bunch of transistors can be wired to give the same function where the function is dependent on transistor states instead of wires. This makes the ground for FPGAs.
The penalty is that transistor configurations that depend on more transistors is slower but will still be fast enough to respond properly. The other penalties are the configuration complexity and heat.

So in essence a few transistors with wiring is replaced with more transistors and wiring but where the function depends on the state of some transistors used as memory instead of hard wired cables.

These FPGA Amigas are essentially a clone just like AMD CPU is a Intel clone. Or an implementation of the original schematic.
Information sources are UAE, and testing of real hardware to get the function.

The devices you need can either be implemented with the FPGA provided there's enough "free" configuration transistors or via USB. The original hardware gets broken by time and there's no replacement for the original chips.
 

Offline freqmax

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 2179
    • Show all replies
Re: FPGA for dummies
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2011, 12:43:41 AM »
The same could be said about x86-pc with VGA boards and the demos coded in assembler for them. It's just to load a different bitfile into the FPGA so it doesn't lessen the original objective.
 

Offline freqmax

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 2179
    • Show all replies
Re: FPGA for dummies
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2011, 07:17:15 PM »
There's some real good experts on FPGA here. Please listen to them..
The amount of persistence of unknowledge is amazing ;)

FPGAs differ from an ordinary CPU and other circuits in so many ways that you will have to rethink most assumptions.
 

Offline freqmax

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 2179
    • Show all replies
Re: FPGA for dummies
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2011, 11:31:49 PM »
If it's just a combination of already established technologies, it might be less confusing to not include it in the discussion ;)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2011, 01:37:41 AM by freqmax »
 

Offline freqmax

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 2179
    • Show all replies
Re: FPGA for dummies
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2011, 01:38:40 AM »
My roof lamp emulates light..
 

Offline freqmax

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 2179
    • Show all replies
Re: FPGA for dummies
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2011, 01:22:00 PM »
Quote from: hairy;670977
As freqmax said, it's probably better to start a new thread


I did not say that.

However some people should pay attention to people working with FPGAs in depth.
 

Offline freqmax

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 2179
    • Show all replies
Re: FPGA for dummies
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2011, 02:28:44 PM »
Not include != Make new thread.
 

Offline freqmax

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 2179
    • Show all replies
Re: FPGA for dummies
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2011, 03:41:14 PM »
No, XMOS jus complicates the subject of the thread.
 

Offline freqmax

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 2179
    • Show all replies
Re: FPGA for dummies
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2011, 09:18:50 PM »
FPGAs implement the connectivity and logic gate setup that the HDL-code (VHDL/Verilog) specify. It will be slightly slower than a plain ASIC because the extra circuitry to make it possible to change function on the fly.

Thus the HDL-code specify connections and gate setup. The only exception are special builtin blocks that deals with phase locking, I/O modes etc.

It won't emulate, simulate, run any code or anything else. All that is plain misunderstanding.

There are analog FPGAs but they are limited. Other than that, other circuitry is just a mix of these technologies.
 

Offline freqmax

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 2179
    • Show all replies
Re: FPGA for dummies
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2011, 05:39:17 PM »
Gosh, there's no soft circuitry or simulation.

Either you have circuit that match the electrical and most importantly the timing specification. If that is fulfilled, it's the real deal.
 

Offline freqmax

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 2179
    • Show all replies
Re: FPGA for dummies
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2011, 12:39:39 AM »
Quote from: shoggoth;671106
Problem here is about belief vs. technical facts


Thumbs up.
 

Offline freqmax

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 2179
    • Show all replies
Re: FPGA for dummies
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2011, 02:23:07 AM »
Quote from: billt;671116
Not all FPGAs have the capability of changing on the fly (reconfigurable).


I mean the ones with SRAM based configuration. They can usually change configuration in 1/10 - 10 seconds depending on size and interface. Some even manage partial reconfiguration during usage.
Maybe you mean the ones using builting EEPROM that loads the internal SRAM?

Quote from: billt;671116
They are slower because of how you make logic be so configurable instead of fixed. Lots and lots of multiplexors and passgates are needed all over the place to give you so many choices of where your signal connections go.


Certainly slower, but the key factor is still if it's within the timing specification or not.
 

Offline freqmax

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 2179
    • Show all replies
Re: FPGA for dummies
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2011, 01:18:34 PM »
I did not mean that reconfiguration capability implies slowness. But it's a common result with current SRAM reconfigurable gates.
 

Offline freqmax

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 2179
    • Show all replies
Re: FPGA for dummies
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2011, 08:21:49 PM »
Yeah the Amiga chipset emulates Amiga.
 

Offline freqmax

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 2179
    • Show all replies
Re: FPGA for dummies
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2011, 11:39:23 PM »
Quote from: mikej;671208
We are now scanning dies of some 1980 ASICs. From this, we can do polygon extraction - then transistor extraction and then reduce to gates.


Amiga ASICs ?

Scanning electron microscope or high-resolution camera?