Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86

[zylesea]

A 2,8 GHz 64-bit quad-core CPU like the Phenom II X4 630 from AMD costs (here in Italy, for the END USER) less than 80 euros! Which should mean little more than 100 dollars. How much does ANY hi-performance (with hi-end meaning up to 2 GHz) multicore PPC processor cost? And how much will cost the motherboards to support them?

Trevor said in some interview the PA6T  (aka "mystery processor") was 500 US$ alone.
But there are also ppcs that have prices that aren't that dramatically nuts. Unfortunately these chips are rather rarely fit into the desktop computing domain. These are mostly low end chips like 512x or chips that include things not needed for desktop computing and hence are expensive (PowerQUICC and QorIQ) or high end chips that are out of question again (the big ones by ibm) or those that aren't available on the free market (like the XBOX 360 cpu).
What's left is some models with a fairly just-not-totally-insane pricetag like the 86x0 or some QorIQs. But they cannot compete against x86 on the desktop market. And it is highly debateable to use ppc longer than reqired for desktop computing. Freescale's going to push it now a bit again and I think they have a remote chance (probably the very last chance for ppc in a broader market).
We'll see in about two years time whether they are successful or failed epicly (again).
For MorphOS I think in two years time it will be highnoon: More or less all ppc Macs supported by then. So either
a) stop it then at all,
b) move to other ISA or
c) (most unlikely) use new ppc gear based on QorIQ Altivec.
From current POV i'd suggest b), but am still dreaming a bit about c) and am fearing a).
But today MorphOS is fun as it is.

[zylesea]

How do you propose they bring down the price down to $300 for a new machine? This isn't a console market where the hardware can be sold at a loss, and mass market hardware is cheap because it's produced in bulk. I'm sure you know this already, which is why I'm surprised that the 'make it cheaper' is constantly brought up as a solution, it's obvious why the price is high.

Make a smart design. Step #1 is chose cpu and features with care. There's plenty ppc to chose from. Freescale has some interesting offers. They will not compete with x86 or ARM at every performance level, but there are chips with reasonable price/performance ratio for small computers that would get used as a general computing device.
Some QorIQs, 86xx, some 85xx. Plus, I highly doubt that an Applied Micro 460 based design needs to be that expensive as Acubes design actually is. The chip itself at least doesn't cost several 100 $$$...

[zylesea]

@ Lou Dias

But, as Kolla has already stated: "I would recommend doing what the MorphOS developers did - that is, release OS4 for old powerpc macs." To which I'll add, I just invested in a used PowerMac (150$), when I invest in MorphOS (150$) then the cost of ownership will be: 300$. Which is more than Hyperion is going to get from me.

You will probably like it. Just had fun tonight with my Efika and th enew OWB release (V1.11).

And, as I've already pointed out: "if it must be PPC, then xBox, Wii or PS3." Lessee... Wii is 200$, so we're talking minimum price of ownership: 350$ and, I dunno... through in a keyboard and mouse for an additional 20?

The Wii just has too little RAM (IIRC 88 MB), Sony just closed their console. The only remotely viable current console would be the XBox 360 - oh the irony, it must be an MS product...
Anyway, that wouldn't stop me. But so far nobody works on a XBox 360 port. And my biggets wish is still the laptop (I am hoping for the MorphOS Powerbook effort).

[zylesea]

Arms are cheap, PPC are expensive.
Look at the price of just the SAM motherboard, no extras.

Looking at the Sam board prices just shows that Acube are charging massively. Why that actually is, may be debatable. But it isn't because the ppcs are so damn pretty expensive.
Unfortnately it is not that easy to obtain price quotes for the 460 (last price I found was about 100 US$ in small quantities, but it wasn't precisely the model Acube is using. Probaly that price is a good guess anyway). And if the 460 was that expensive then the big qestion is: why on earth use that chip when there are enough other ppc chips available?

[zylesea]

Part of it, as far as I understand, is a lot of the work is apparently done in Italy rather than China.

Pegasos 1 & 2 and Efika 5200b were produced in Germany. Hence I think this China argument is rather void. And if Italy was that expensive I guess Bruxelles should really kick some arses in Roma. And why is a Fiat or Alfa then not x times more expensive than a Volkswagen or Mercedes... Poducing in Italy is not that expensive if done right.

[zylesea]

Avnet has 1GHz 460ex chips for just over US$100. Slower versions go as low as about $75.
Go to http://www.avnet.com and search for 460ex, click on processors category in results.

If 460ex is expensive, then the only alternatives are lower performance than that. Many of us want to go in the positive direction, not backwards. Yes, even if that's more expensive.

Last time I checked a big supplier for the 460 I found only few prices. But they were similar to them Avnet lists now (about a 100$ for a 460ex). Hence it is exactly as I wrote. The 450 is not the massively driving cost factor. It is 100$ - not cheap, but also no reason to charge several hunderets for the board.
The price/performance ratio of the Sam just isn't convincing - and it *could* be done different.

[zylesea]

Probably whoever Acube's real customer base is had a requirement where the 460 was the best fit.

They *never* confirmed any sale ouside  the OS4 community and the website is 100% OS4-o-centric. Unless they confirm that they sold serious numbers of the Sam boards outside Amigaland I *highly doubt* they did.
They may target that market, but I don't see them selling outside Amigaland. If  they were successful, they would communicating this (no, they don't need to disclose names, but usually start ups are happy to announce successes). Denx GmbH, which are listed on the Acube site as partner, don't list Acube products on their hardware page.
IMHO it is a mythst or probably wishful thinking that Sams are sold to the embedded market. At least not in serious quantities.

[zylesea]

On their homepage and software page, sure. On their hardware page they don't mention OS4. In their user manuals they never mention OS4. The Flex seems to be the only exception - it's clearly tied to the OS4 market.

Look at the generic wording for the SAM440 & 460 boards:
"The Sam460ex is made both for embedded and consumer markets. It can be adapted to different needs. "..." How can the operating system be loaded? It is possible to load the operating system from a SATA harddisk, a CDROM connected on SATA, a USB key, a SD card or from the network."

How do you explain the EyeMotion?

Also keep in mind, the SAM440 used to be on it's own domain. Acube could have easily pointed potential embedded customers to that domain without ever having to explain why OS4 is so prominent on the Acube home page. That domain is now deprecated, but you can still find the links to it via Google (SAM440.com).

As for not announcing their customers, maybe they have the same kind of clients as whoever supplies the CPU to A-eon.

The eyemotion is indeed not exlainable with amiga only (but there are drivers for it and on the 460 board it will be kind of included). And as said, I don't think they were not targetting the embedded market initially and probably sold a few items, but I suspect they weren't really successful. Originally the boards are interesting, tiny, low energy, kind of nice. But that alone doesn't seem to cut it.
Anyway, I kind of like Acube. They actually design boards and deliver. The boards are nice, but overpriced. But I don't see a substancial embedded marked backing up Acube when there is no real evidence given.
I hope Acube will correct this. As said, there is no name disclosure required, but when they have a deal it woudn't be too unusual if  they announced they sold major stock to some mil/com/finace/other-übersecret-market-division/alien company from outer space or maybe even Microsoft.
But w/o confirmation I continue to doubt they sell serious stock outside Amigaland.