UltimatePPC and everything else

[buzz]

You wouldn't need to execute incompatible fpu code, if everything wasn't so "closed source" in amigaland.

good thing that other developers don't have the crappy amiga attitude to source releases, or morphos/os4 would have no decent web browser,, video player and so on.

[buzz]

...TCP stack, font engine (+fonts), PDF viewer, archive support, OpenGL, compositing...

yeh - exactly

[buzz]

Really?

so ignore everything else on the list. the point is made.

[buzz]

well I have no idea - I'm assuming it isn't from your remarks - always good to avoid the "point" and be pedantic. major components are - which was the point - that amiga projects benefit from open source, yet often give back very little. in this case, criticism over hardware about compatibility, when you could just as easily blame the software for being closed for the "incompatiblities".

Many of the posts on slashdot were right imho (re morphos). You just dont see it, and hence you will only have a small userbase and developers (such as myself) will stay away and work on other things.

[buzz]

The vast majority of the posts on slashdot are just totally irrelevant. They don't see the point of this project, so be it, but they can just skip the article instead of throwing so much nonsense.

And I also wonder why you always come with this "it's not opensource so i don't touch it" mantra. AmigaOS/MorphOS is not linux, you can contribute a lot and even code drivers without requiring access to the kernel. So dear Mr Developer, what do you really need access to the source for? What would you like to work on?

And if you need an excuse, just say you're not interested, it's better than this "it's not opensource" thing.

re the open source things. I like to have the ability to hack on / debug/ improve software I run. open source allows me to do that.

your comment that I dont need access to the kernel to write a driver, is exactly my issue - being told what I can and can't do. I won't want to buy into software to run as my hobby machine, that is locked down to a single piece of hardware, doesnt give me the freedom to work on parts that I want. Maybe I want to work on the core os. Or maybe I don't but I would like the ability to be there. right now the "morphos" team have the power to pull the plug on the os, or refuse to replacea keyfile if hardware was to die. No thanks.

I'm not picking on just morphos. I feel the same about os4.

I realise my "views" are incompatible with the views of many "Amiga users". I realise you will continue to utilise open source that originates from other platforms, while limiting the freedom your own users have with your code.. and because of that you also limit your userbase. I'm sure that doesn't matter to you either.

[buzz]

I think you misunderstood Piru this time. Who is using open source compositing engine? Certainly someone is using open source compositing engine but dont like to admit it publicly.

i see. well, that's a shame.

There are n+1 open source Amiga projects on google code and sf.net. From Aminet you can find more open source stuff. Problem is not that there isnt enough open source code to make this accelerator board project float.

there is very little "open source" code originating in Amiga land from my experience (excl aros). I've got comfortable in the fact that the source is available for pretty much all the software I run these days (on linux). You are right there isn't enough - and it will never change while people seem to have the private club / closed source ethos.

[buzz]

Mate, if you REALLY have issues with using any software that you don`t have complete source control over then how did you ever start using an amiga?  
For that matter how do you get by in daily life?
Do you demand schematics when you buy a new TV?
It is a wholly unreasonable expectation.

I had different ideas when I got the Amiga and was still learning much about computing.

I get by fine thanks. I choose to use open source. It is available and I can do that. Certainly it would be nice to have the firmware for my TV.

you can call it unreasonable, but I'm not alone and the free open software is out there, and as an Amiga user you benefit from it. It works for me - I had some ethernet issue with linux, I was able to debug, send a patch upstream and make it work. Same with other software.

I might have bought into a closed amigaos in the past, but that doesn't mean I have to do it again

[buzz]

edit:  I`ll also add that a lot of big open source projects result in a turgid mish-mash of competing ideas and lack polish.  Amiga idea is based around tight code, simplicity and efficient use of resources, everything OSS isn`t .  Open source MOS would be a disaster.
Threads about the direction AmigaOS and clones should take are regularly punctuated by foolish suggestions - would you give all these people source access and allow them to fork the OS every time they want support for some stupid thing?

re-edit:  Would you use a parachute that had been packed by a thousand people taking turns to make one fold and each having a different view on how to pack a parachute?

your first remark is FUD. it is no different from closed source, quality is different from project to project - and has the advantage more eyes can be on the code to pick up issues.

the rest of your post, I don't agree - and is speculation with no founding.

I'm not suprised by your view though.

and the parachute remark? how is it any different from any large project, open or closed. the source license makes no difference. you have to organise etc and work together.

The proof is out there - there are many successful collaborative and open projects. I benefit from them as do you most likely.

you don't have to agree, and can carry on with your closed source. I benefit from open source, and utilise it for work and hobby computing. I actively develop on open projects also.

[buzz]

It is just my opinion, OSS often seems to lack vision and direction to me.  Your response is disarming and reasonable though, I did not mean to be as confrontational as I think I may have been.

My perspective is that lots of projects lack direction, no matter the source license and many are also well organised, structured, and focused.

To take a small example regarding code quality, if I work on a piece of small code alone, but license it as open source, is the code quality going to be affected? In my experience, the benefits are people can send patches back, which i can check and merge as needed. I don't believe people instantly fork something when one thing doesn't go their way, but they have the ability to for sure - and it can be a bit messy (ffmpeg/libav for example) - even though in that case, both projects pull code from each other, but have a different focus.

Fragmentation isn't always avoidable, but it's not guaranteed either (and so I don't think used as a - open source doesnt work because argument), and like with any project that is collaborative, there will be the need to discuss, compromise and so on.

Perhaps we just have a different experience of this.

[buzz]

Buy an UltimatePPC and get AROS running on it then.

that sounds like an expensive way to run aros.

you know there is a difference between me having the freedom to do something, and you telling me to do something right ?

I already have plenty of projects anyway, but thanks.

(I may well buy one of these devices, and I certainly wish them the best of luck with the project)

[buzz]

You either want to do something or you don't. If you're just in love with the idea that you should be able to do whatever you want but you're not going to contribute anything back then tough, nobody cares.
 
AROS on UltimatePPC is what you need to achieve your objectives, you just need to get over the idea that MorphOS or AOS4 should be open source.

No - I want the freedom to be able to do something. I don't need telling what I should or shouldn't do - and I already contribute huge amounts of my free time (close to all of it) to open source projects.

AROS on ultimatePPC isn't going to be that useful when it runs better on cheaper already available hardware. but yeh, the freedom is there to do it. I don't see your point though.