Netsurf for 68k amigas, css capable web brower

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owb on os4 is in meantime using the clever amiga-way to render pages too. lol.
reuters is really quite an unusable benchmark if:

after what time you can move the slider or scroll with cursor keys and you need not wait ?

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First, the rendering is not OWB specific. It renders the same way on any webkit-based browser.

And then, you can scroll after about 2s (the page is already partially loaded at that point). At 5s the whole document height is computed and you can scroll to bottom as well.

But again, silly test.

And by the way, to compare it on a fair basis, if javascript is disabled in OWB, then the whole document loads in 4s (images included), and you can already scroll to bottom after 1s.

So, happy now?

i like to know on OS4 cybppc OWB speed values.

its really strange wy the 68k OWB is so extrem slow.the OWB 1.2 use SDL and is more 2* faster.OWB1.4 use no SDL and is slower.

are there important changes in wekkit or OWB so it work now so fast ?

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current versions of owb on os4 are also faster as the initial release. i cant say how much and why exactly. surely due to both engine improvements and joerg os4 specific enchantments.

the 68k OWB must speedup bei Factor 10 to be usefull.have OWB this speedup get ?

please post some values of your OS4 OWB.netsurf page, reuters page

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The internal font version is working now.

It doesn't use freetype so there may be a speed gain.

You can download it here:

http://sites.google.com/site/amigacorner/Home/Netsurf2-nofreetype.zip .

good but thats a 16 bit version and work only on 16 bit screen.

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Have tired both versions. The 32bit one crashes, with a recoverable alert. The 16 bit one runs and I can access a range of sites - Amiga.org, Bloomberg.com etc but I seem to lose the mouse after abit - can't see the pointer outside of the browser.

I'm running the 16 bit version on my A4000D with CSMII 060, 128MB Ram, Z3 Fastlane with 48MB Ram, Cybervision 3d with Scandoubler, P96 drivers, X-Surf, Miami, Deneb 2.0. OS3.9 BB1 & BBII, 3.1 Roms.

the 32 bit version run only on a 32 bit screen.so you need to select correct version, for your workbench screendepth.

the pointer is a sdl shape, and when sdl window is active it can only move in sdl window.when you move the pointer over the edge, then the sdl pointer not move, but when you then press left mousebutton to activate another window, your amiga mousepointer is here.

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I've selected a "32bit BGRA" screenmode, but it refused to open a window. Only the 16 bit version works for me after I switch the screenmode to "16bit PC".
 
The site www.nu.nl (dutch news site) results in a hangup of netsurf.

i think your system have no 800*600 32 bit screen ?

i get too the problem with http://www.nu.nl.no crash, netsurf only not continue to load and quit of netsurf is too not possible.

does this site work on MOS or OS4 netsurf ?

""""
Google Summer of Code
NetSurf was accepted as a mentoring organisation into Google Summer of Code 2009[19]. The projects they are running include development of LibDOM, the project's Document Object Model, and improvement of NetSurf's user interface.[20]
""""

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetSurf

I dont know if all notice that, but netsurf is a sponsered project of google summer code, so hope there is manpower to fix it

if somebody have a videocam, its also nice to see how fast netsurf is, on a 50 MHZ system. but wait until next release, its faster then.

http://socghop.appspot.com/student_project/show/google/gsoc2009/netsurf/t124022821160

I see in google summer the project, that netsurf seem change the GUI way soon.SO its also not sure if amiga or MOS GUI need much changes, so i think use gtk to MUI wrapper is easest way

"""
Title:  Core UI enhancements and keyboard navigation  
Abstract:  At the time being, all parts of the UI are created by the platform dependent code. This approach has some major drawbacks.
NetSurf is designed for resource constrained hardware but it doesn't work with restricted input methods. At the moment a mouse is necessary for browsing. This can be a barrier for hand held devices and a serious inconvenience for advanced users.
My intention is to remove the above limitations.  
"""

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@__arti:

Any chance of a MUI version ??

in the google code of summer project, there seem GUI implementation DOM large change.seem there is time to wait until it is finished if MUI or amiga OS work with new netsurf.

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ok, im back in business (for the time being).
i had a terrible problem to get my dsl router up und running after i switched it off for two weeks. it has lost all data and the damn pc didnt wanted to reprogram the thing neither with iexpl nor firefox. hung around, some firewall prob or who knows.:/ in the end i throwed os4 with owb at that and voila. it worked immediately. so it seems aos4 is still good for something, right?

back to subject:
i looked at the nofreetype version. it is slightly faster, around 5% i would say. but i think its not worth it. some pages look trashed with internal type and the speedup is not significant.

edit: well, not quite, sometimes its pretty much faster, like +1/3
it would be good to get hold of this endiannes problem first i think. and it still runs out of memory. it has nothing to do with stack apparently.

 i see the bugtracker has already been taken care of too

btw, on os4 i have an impression that the current owb is quite a lot faster than netsurf so maybe it still would be worth a try.

try the page

Edit:Page was before wrong

http://www.t-online.de

i notice on netsurf it is only show when it is full load.take 10 sec on my system

on OWB 68k same i can only scroll to down and read full text until all images are load.

but on firefox, safari there can scroll around and read the text after 3 sec.

but of course the images are not load complete.

what happen on OWB OS4 with that page ?

I dont know if netsurf use threads, i only see MOS netsurf use a GUI thread.but if this help to get better reaction when a page is not full load i dont know.

maybe somebody can tell what happen with the site on netsurf MOS.can there read text and scroll much time before all images are load ?

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the page loads ages on 68k: around 80sec, both versions of ns, nofreetype was even some sec slower in this case.
approximate results:

68k ns-nofreetype ~68-83.s -has to load full, slight layout glitches doesnt scroll immediately after page is complete

68k ns ~77.s -has to load full

owb 68k 1.3 - difficult to benchmark, definitely much longer, but you can scroll a little after a minute or so, doesnt need to load full, rendered perfectly

owb 3.13 os4 - loads about a minute, able to scroll after ~20s (604/150), it opens a popup and default window size is much bigger of course.

netsurf2.1 on os4 starts to display but locks the system before the images load

for comparison my firefox needs ~13s on a athlon dual 4200+, my dsl is only 2k btw

the OWB OS4 version have after 20 sec load, full page Text load, so can full scroll down to read last line ?

and your firefox result, is the 13 sec full page i guess ?

what time you get on your firefox until you can scroll full down to read last text line ?

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owb os4 20 sec for scrolling 1 min for full page, just tried again and firefox rendered t-online in some 5 sec now, scrolling is possible immediately. as piru said the results vary so much it is difficult ?

i think the fast firefox result is
because firefox have a cache you need a page reload do(press reload button).

but even if firefox is fast on cache , OWB and netsurf should of course too use the cache and show page faster.

its right that the internet time make things differ.But not very much.I test myself with proxy
 
If you have your amiga connect to a PC you can run a cache proxy here.

when you set a env var on amiga OS
http_proxy

127.0.0.1:0080

with content then it can use the proxy on the PC when you set the address and port to above values
this env var is used by all browsers that use libcurl.so OWB and netsurf use a proxy cache

I use allegro surf(its kn own as fast) and i notice no speedup of amiga browsers/firefox on pages with fastserver as the t-online site and other big sites i tell are.

>maybe there is a way to optimize this wit hwsurface or what it was?

yes, newest version is faster and use the gfx card blitter for scroll because it use HWsurface.

We send test versions to Thomas with sdl_software and SDL_HWsurface and on his slow Z2 system, sdl_HWsurface give same render speed, but scroll lots faster

also new is 16 and 32 bit mode is automatic detect, key input with shift and alt work, and speed should be faster,because to get correct endian, code  can remove

but there are still lots of known bugs that are netsurf SDL Problems, i have report them in ML, but because all work on integrate the google summer code, nobody have time, so need to wait for SDL and new DOM what happen here.

but what can say, netsurf run stable on  68k and the OS4 crashes are no fault of netsurf main code.

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Here, with OWB 1.3 for MorphOS, it takes about 20s to load fully, and you can already scroll to bottom after 4s (note that on MorphOS, OWB network manager is threaded).

FireFox gave a similar result, loading in about 20s too, and allowing to scroll after about 4-5s.

But i wonder once again why i replied about that kind of benchmark that depends on way too many factors.

You are free to run a cache proxy and bring more accurate results.
But because most are too lazy to do this extra work, then this values are better than nothing to see if amiga browsers work good in compare to firefox, to see if it is usefull to have firefox too

also you can post values when you do a site back to show how long time need to show full page but in cache.

its also intresting to see how the speed is when MOS OWB use no threads.if it is possible to disable by define.

as far i know OS4 OWB use no threads and 68k too not.

Maybe it help users to choose the better OWB.

I think using thread is important, to get same speed as firefox
but if not really know if it have noticable speedup with threa

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@artur:


bbc news link on netsurf start page fi. i will find some other sites and post it here. i think generally every complex site runs eventually out of mem. just testing...

i get too this out of memory error in netsurf status page that netsurf report when press on BBC Link.

sometimes the error is not show and BBC Page is also not draw.
the last page is show.

I think thats too a netsurf problem or does it work on OS4 ?

btw if you change the window size pref of netsurf to your screen res can cause problems.best is you use 20 pixel less so border can fit.

>32bit argb argb on my voodoo the whole sdl window is tainted >yellow too, -i think this is adressed to bernd and his sdl port.

netsurf SDL have problem to use SDL pixelformats.
it work only when you choose a bgra or bgr screen bgr 16pc

but now this version detect if run on 16 or 32 bit screen and use correct depth.

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since the problem doesnt show up on some other big sites im not sure if this is really out of mem problem. maybe it is wrongly reported as such. i dont know.

bernd,i have reproduced the failure on reloading t-online.de and this timethere was no hit nor crash but the request of ixemul.library: abort trap. after that netsurf closed quietly.

something strange happens on amigans.net (maybe due to java script) and on utilitybase.com. you noticed? i havnt confirmed it using os4 version yet, will try it later.

edit: no, netsurf os4 loads news.bbc.co.uk succesfully (29.1s) reporting one object of a wrong type.
also no probs on utilitybase.com and amigans.net (corruption around the cursor)
well, but this might be due to sdl version limitations.

can you make screenshot of this page ?
what screen res you have on workbench and what setting you have in netsurf screenwidth option ?

i test the version from aminet, it create a shadow surface and use HWsurface on my system.please look what happen on your system.

normaly output on sashimi should be no shadowsurface

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workbench: 1680x1050 netsurf:1200x1000

thats a memtrash error.
I try your resolution and after i press reload i get a abort trap error and netsurf quit.

then i try out 1024*768

this too dont work get after second reload too problem.allis reproducable

I test on 800*600 more than 10 reloads and all work ok.

please try out to use a resolution of 800*600 or below

seem netsurf have a >800 Bug.

I try out resolutions 761*571 to see maybe sdl have a allign memtrash problem.but this resolution too work ok with more than 10 reloads no crash

maybe you can try out the OS4 version and set window to below 800*600.

maybe on OS4 its same the large window cause the crash.

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edit: bernd, were you able to reproduce these strange pointer effects on utilitybase and amigans? i had something similar while editing

Edit:
this i see too.when scroll with cursor then a width rectangle is see.

But when wait until the bitmaps(OS4 AROS classic images) are draw before mouse move or scroll, then all is ok.but sometimes i get no images show only when scroll full down and then up

strange what SDL can do with that

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you write you get with the BBC page on OS4 wrong object type message ?

Now that i increase window size to 1200*1000 i get too this message, and no out of memory but page is not show.

or can you post a screenshot of the BBC Page on OS4 is show ?