Contaced a Factory in China about producing a run of fully populated Mini-migs

[Crom00]

Hello,

With all this talk about Mini-Migs and the hours required to solder all the chips I figure it may be easier in some ways to just spend more money on purchasing a fully populated motherboard without power supply or abs plastic case.

I contaced a factory in Shenzen China about the producing a run of fully populated Mini-Migs. They should be able to give a minimum order quantity and cost per unit based upon the files on Dennis' site.

I have tried to solder surface mounted componets. To say it ain't easy is an understatement. If you misalign a chip even slightly you can ruin a board and hours of work.

My background is in the toy industry. I have sent many items out for cost analasys since 2000. I have worked on many products and have dealt with Chinese manufacturers in the past.

At the very least we will get real world costs on producing this item.

[Crom00]

Reducing costs is paramount for US toy companies. The low cost of munufacturing in Asia, allows US firms to have elaborate stateside showroom trade show displays, big ad budgets, and take care of the US employees, managers and executives.

It's a vicious cycle that I'm surprised hasn't been exposed in the media up until now.

But for projects like low run specialty market Mini-MIG... Low cost Chinese manufacturing is a win win situation, this isn't a mass market 5 dollar item for childern 3 and under.

[Crom00]

I asked the factory what the minimum order quantity is for a product like this. It helps if they can get a big fat order. In prevoious toy projects we were not allowed develop a product with Integrated Circuts if orders totalled less than 50,000 units.

Ideally you have enough orders to cover costs before tooling anything, you can even work it so that orders ship directly to Amiga dealers from China instead of warehousing the inventory doemstically. This way you make only what sell with a 5-10% portion of invertory stored to cover defects & returns and promotional giveaways.

[Crom00]

These factories often have good relationships with suppliers that make small run projects possible. It helps if they believe in the project, or belive they can re-use hardware for other prjoects.

[Crom00]

Just contacted an expat living in HK who is an expert manufacturer of toys and electronics. If Mini-MIG were to be produced he would be the go to guy, He can tell us if it's possible to do at a reasonalbe price point.

[Crom00]

 Oh and yes, of course you only want to pay US$30.

This is a limited run specialty item. We would have to produce hundered of thousands of units to get a price that low.

Factory is working on the quote as I type.

Cheers!
 :-D

[Crom00]

I think that if a price range between 50 and 99 USD for a machine without a floppy drive or CD-ROM drive or keyboard or mouse but with a simple case,

It costs several thousand dollars (conservative est.) to produce the tooling molds for a case. This does not include the design, prototype and debug. No way you can get a low run board with a case for $50-99.

We've worked on 15" models with simple IC's and lights that cost $40 at retail. Our margins were break even at best. You only make money for reorders. We had to order 50,000 units to get that retail price. It cost $12,000 alone for the model prototype.

No factory is going to tool that without orders or somekind of commitment from customers. This is being quoted as motherboard only in a master case, packaged like an oem product in a protective esd bag and white box.

Think of how mod chips are packaged. You get the idea.

This is going to be a great learning experience for everyone on this board though.

[Crom00]

One other thing to factor into costs, if this thing  were to actually sell in real numbers...whoever produces this can expect Amiga Inc. to file a lawsuit "with the quickness..."

Speaking in hypothetic terms of course...

Based upon the past works of Amiga Inc, and given the litagious actions of late (Hyperion case)...

I mean they can't even get it straight with someone they hired to develop the OS4. Imagine what they'll do if they find out someone just sold 50,000 Amiga clones. LOL!

One could argue that they would use the DMCA (or whatever legal grounds possible)and claim that the device promotes pirating of the Amiga IP, threatens Amiga patents, and promotes piracy etc. though use of the kickstart roms and ADF files, etc.

Sure we all know it aint so, that Mini-Mig is totally legal. It doesn't matter if you're right and they're totally wrong. Once someone sues you have to hire a lawyer to defend. Once you have 2 lawyers talking to each other the billable hours skyrocket.

Imainge a container loaded with Min-Migs held at customs because of a lawsuit. Ugghhh...

[Crom00]

little wrote:


Call me crazy, but why not use the 1chipMSX case?

quote]

You can use the MSX case for inspiration, but they own that design and the tooling, you still have to tool your own case since the board layout of the Mini-Mig is not the same as the MSX.

[Crom00]

Yes a few hundred units is something that can be done by a small operation. 50k units gets you better pricing though for sure.

A design that removes the need for purchasing the mc68000 would be better.

[Crom00]

Vlabguy1 wrote:
Why would you contact China..everything they make is CRAP!!

Why not the U.S.??  

Actually that isn't true, having been there and worked with crews myself. It's economics, the Chinese undercut US manufacturers by steep margins, have a extensive highly skilled low cost labor force, and are eager to please.

If you're manufacturing its a win win situation, if you're an out of work stateside engineer, Creative Service person, or factory worker with a family to feed, its a lousy situation if you've lost a job to outsourcing.

[Crom00]

If you're interested in a fully popluated board Please private message me your email, or if you don't want to give out that info just let me know that you're interested.

If this ever goes past cost stages I would need to follow up in an organized fashion. Heck even if I ever got samples I'd offer Dennis and you guys first dibs on them.

[Crom00]

Tripitaka wrote:
I have little need for another A500, but i'd still take a Minimig if the price is right. Keep us all informed.  :-)

I think it's worth it just to play those games on a modern montior VGA lcd or hdtv style monitor. I spent $80 for a used flicker fixer and $150 for an external scan doubler. Ouch.

And it's portable.
  :-P

[Crom00]

I tell you, having an Amiga game player that I can connect to a Modern HDTV with a dvi-vga port at 31 klhz is good enough for me. No more unsghtly flicker fixers. Like the whole cheap PC keyboard option. Beats scouring ebay for Amiga keyboards.

Ideally would LOVE to have an AGA version with a VGA graphics chipset, pci interface (for usd, ethernet, etc) and Picasso96 so that old productivity software can run on a future version.

[Crom00]

UPDATE:

The factories have replied, they reiewed all of Dennis work, confirm that this project is possible. My old contact in HK says he has the perfect factory for this.

They all want a Bill of Materials, that I'm preparing right now.