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Author Topic: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors  (Read 42727 times)

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Offline CHR_ZDTopic starter

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From the book "Freax"

— What's your opinion about the new Amiga successors, the Amiga One and the Pegasos? Do you think they have future?

They're both just PCs with PPCs. Nothing more, nothing less. If a PowerPC is something you find interesting, look at these. If not, they're barely a blip on the radar. What really bothers me is the business case. I don't think anyone working on these things has actually run a company before, certainly not a real company.
First question: who are your customers? If you can't answer that, you are not in business. Both seem to be saying "old Amiga users", but I don't believe that alone is a market large enough to sustain one new computer platform, much less two. Second question: how dedicated are your customers? AmigaOS/MorphOS require custom hardware. So it's $800-$1600 invested before you boot to Workbench. Once there, you don't have applications yet. So it's just a toy.
My claim is and has been that AmigaOS, or a clone, should have been ported to a PC. I just bought a 2.6GHz P4/Celeron machine, including 80GB hard drive, DVD/CD-R/CD-RW drive, 256MB of DDR-DRAM, etc. for $199. Ok, it was a good sale, this is one of my son's Christmas presents. This runs many times faster than any "neo-Amiga" class PPC machine. And many other people have PCs, they don't have PPC machines. What this means: there's a barrier to entry for new Amigas. In the old days, we had advances in hardware and software. But when the hardware is substandard and expensive, why bother? AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current, hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.
Ok, so my opposition will say something like "but, if it runs Windows, they'll just run Windows, not AmigaOS". Dudes... Newsflash! They're already doing that. No one will accidently run AmigaOS rather than Windows. Everyone running AmigaOS, or MorphOS, made that decision. They're early supporters, they see something better. So they absolutely will run things on AmigaOS, if they can run them on AmigaOS. This is exactly how Linux has been growing.
Flip the coin around... if there's a job I need to do, that I can't do under AmigaOS or MorphOS today, that's a reason to not buy. I might also have reasons, such as interest to buy. Add them up, and there's my purchase decision. It's a threshold thing. If the path-independent means to getting AmigaOS on my desktop is $100 rather than $1000, more will sign up. Likely, many more, because the threshold of rejection is a log scale. You might find, for every 100 people willing to buy a New Amiga, there are 1000 or 10,000 willing to buy the software to run this environment on their PC. This is only made more obvious by the fact that none of the hardware is even as good as the cheap PC stuff. If it was better than PC, you'd have a big geek attractor there, even if they didn't know Amiga. Today, it's a big geek repellant, they understand all the details, and don't want to be made fool of.
And all of these issues are largely independent of the OS itself. In OS terms, "better" gets some curious people, if there's a free download. "Dramatically better" gets more, if there's a free download. "Dramatically better, with applications" is where the revolution might begin.
 

Offline CHR_ZDTopic starter

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Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2006, 12:59:20 PM »
He tells Commodore CEOs where not even listening to the engineers. Try "The Deathbed Vigil" movie on Commodore Bankruptcy.

Quote

motorollin wrote:
A very convincing and well articulated comment. If only he had said this to Commodore (and they had listened), they might still be here today.

--
moto
 

Offline CHR_ZDTopic starter

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Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2006, 01:20:50 PM »
I will post.
 

Offline CHR_ZDTopic starter

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Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2006, 01:47:27 PM »
yours is just a religion but people doesn't have faith in that.
 

Offline CHR_ZDTopic starter

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Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2006, 01:55:18 PM »
Quote

motorollin wrote:
As soon as the hardware is out of your control, you have to rely on 3rd party hardware manufacturers to conform to standards in order to keep your OS compatible and stable, and that is one reason why x86 operating systems like Windows and even Linux can be unstable.
moto


Dave opinion is Windows is not unstable anymore:

- Some say it's perhaps better that the Amiga died, because sooner or later it would've developed into some unstable and unreliable thing like the PC is. What do you think?

- No, I don't think so. For one, the PC is very, very reliable. The hardware all works together, very nicely. Maybe it's 98% or so, better by far than the HW developed over time for the Amiga.
On the software side, you have issues. Linux tends to be rock solid, and lately even does expansion fairly well. Windows has had problems, it still does expansion wrong, but even at that, it's not generally unreliable anymore. As in most software and hardware interfaces, there are issues of algorithm and implementation. Early Windows was simply brain dead in all things: nothing was well designed, and what was well designed was poorly implemented. In modern Windows (NT-kernel-based), they have fixed more than half of the bad ideas, and even more bugs. But there are still bad ideas. Those are the ones that don't necessarily get fixed, like the way Windows does autoconfig. They're totally wrong about how they do that, and yet, don't understand that they're wrong. So they won't fix it. But that's more of a boot-time than runtime issue. Windows may screw up your network configuration, but it'll happily run for months without crash with that incorrect configuration.


 

Offline CHR_ZDTopic starter

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Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2006, 04:51:30 PM »
Even a PIII at 500Mhz can handle Divx videos without problems. If your 1GHZ Athlon fails it means you need to reinstall the codecs.
 

Offline CHR_ZDTopic starter

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Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2006, 05:07:42 PM »
So what? 9 GB? Modern hard disks have hundreds of gigabytes for very low prices. Desktop systems with 200GB Hard Disks 512/1024MB of ram and fast 3d cards like Nvidia or ATI are priced under 500$
 

Offline CHR_ZDTopic starter

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Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2006, 07:08:14 PM »
I am not triggering anyone. What is it? You can't post arguments? So, what is the problem of the article being 3 years old? What happened in the last 3 years to Amiga? A rebirth? I don't see that. It could be 3 years old but it could have been written tomorrow.
 

Offline CHR_ZDTopic starter

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Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2006, 07:39:17 PM »
Quote

lempkee wrote:
chd: ..ofcourse you wouldnt mind if the OS was 9 GB or TB ..sorta tells more about you than i would like ot know ;)


Oh please. I see, you are the kind of guy who needs to move on horses because you don't see what improvement a car is.... Why would we need the wheel if we can just push and pull objects around?
 

Offline CHR_ZDTopic starter

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Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2006, 10:24:37 AM »

Quote
am not triggering anyone. What is it? You can't post arguments?


You posted a article that does not put the Amiga in a positive light. If it is not pro Amiga, you will be shot down in flames (see how f/cked up this thread has turned  on aw.net, all thanks to a moderator)

Coincidence that thread has vanished, supposedly due to a forum reshuffle.[/quote]

That's the problem. If Amiga supporter can't see how the world around is changing to learn from it and instead stick to the past Amiga is dead already. Yesterday Mcintosh launched Intel based machines and they also have their OS running on it. This was done in 1 year. Amiga development is running at less than 7Mhz!
 

Offline CHR_ZDTopic starter

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Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2006, 02:35:21 PM »
I probably didn't find that post any smart.