Rats leaving a sinking ship, or something else?

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-  just clearing up evidence that any trolling took place in the first place... troll, what troll? : edited by mikeymike -

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I've been following this thread and it's been surprisingly civilised :-o

IIRC Bill Buck has admitted (on ANN I think) that this is nothing more than a nusance suit.  It's designed to kick Amiga while it's down. Whether Bill Buck wants to just keep them on the floor a bit longer or to deliver the final blow is uncertain.

Despite everyone at Genesi/Phoenix saying otherwise, they are despirate to get thier mits on the Amiga brand. TBH though I'm not sure it'll do them a whole load of good, it's not going to give them the kind of strong brand identity that it would of done 8, 5 or even 3 years ago. There is also the problem that the name has been tarnished by the current Amiga Inc.  If their intentions are to capture the whole market by having "the name", then that won't work either, because their employees and fanboys (not talking regular users, but the MOS equivalent of MikeB) have pissed off to many people, and also there are those of us that prefer AOS4 simply because it's closer to what we want than MOS is.  

I think the whole situation is horribly screwed up, and that Amiga and Genesi have ruined the Amiga community.  It never had to be, but egos were put before business, technology and community.

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@Matt

That's probably because you are more mature than me ;-)

That's the last I'm saying on this business, I don't want to totally ruin what is otherwise a good thread.

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greenboy wrote:

uncharted : IIRC Bill Buck has admitted (on ANN I think) that this is nothing more than a nusance suit.

Has he... I seem to have missed that. I've never heard him talk about it that way in all our hours on the phone, or in hundreds of emails.

Really? Take a look at this...

The whole AmigaDE lawsuit was just a means to shut Bill McEwen up and force Amiga Inc. into a settlement that might include us obtaining the rights to the Amiga trademarks and the classic OS.  Amiga Inc. had no reason to spread all the FUD they did officially about MorphOS, particularly after we tried so hard to help them in 2000 and 2001.  McEwen's 1 September "we will shut you down" threat was just more talk and on about the same level as the coupon scam.  We could not allow him to continue to do this and took action.  It worked.  He is gone.  

That was taken from http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1051380286&category=news&start=51 if you don't believe me.

Despite everyone at Genesi/Phoenix saying otherwise, they are despirate to get thier mits on the Amiga brand.

Don't drag Phoenix into this. You seem to be very comfortable making statements and assumptions that appear to be meant to support antagonism - like that "It's designed to kick Amiga while it's down" ... and it's rarely ever that simple.

I never dragged phoenix into working so closely with Genesi, nor did I put a gun to your head and make you go around posting with the kind of authority you do.  Sometimes reading your posts is like reading a press release.

What's wrong with my statements? It's just a figure of speech for goodness' sake. Oh, yeah, and it can be that simple, if you want to hide it behind clever wording, or whatever, that's your choice, but I'm bored with the ####.  I say it as I see it.

Probably the last thing I'll say in this thread: Genesi is not "despirate to get thier mits on the Amiga brand." There is no desperation involved.

more of that same posting on ANN....

  Back to the lawsuit...the worst case for us would be enforcing our license agreement that would require Amiga Inc. to integrate DE for use in some way with the Pegasos which would then allow us to use the trademarks (as there are some that would prefer to call the Pegasos an Amiga).  Again, no big deal...users/customers can/should have the choice to call their computer whatever they want and do whatever they want with it....;-)

And this after all those statements that they didn't want Amiga branding for MOS/Pegasos.

Genesi's main concern is to see progressive improvements come of the potential that is still to be found - if you look REALLY hard - in this community.

By example in finance, partnership, sponsoring and effort, Genesi is showing more leadership than the moribund Amino/Amiga Inc promised so long ago but neglected in a hundred different ways.

Again with the PR speak, and you wondered why I lumped you and Genesi together in the original posting. :-?

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greenboy wrote:

As I said in my post Phoenix does not have any interest in the Amiga name. You brought Phoenix into the discussion here seeming to claim that it does. But it does not. Trying to spin that into a PR-speak connection afterwards while ignoring what I said about mine and Phoenix's lack of interest in the Name shows that when you "call it as you see it " you apparently also choose to filter out what others say if it doesn't fit what you want to see.

Had your posting been soley about Phoenix's postition with regards to the Amiga branding then fair enough.  However it soon turned into a posting about Genesi.  In fact your first comment tried to counter my comment about the lawsuit by highlighting your close ties (and by extention your authority) to Genesi.

So you cry foul when I bring up your close ties with Genesi, and yet you use it as a basis for your arguments?

Another misdirection: "I never dragged phoenix into working so closely with Genesi" does not even fit the context of your orignal statement - it's purpose of making the association was to attribute something to Phoenix which simply is not true.

I'm not ashamed to admit I haven't got the foggiest what you are going on about. :-?

As far as your BBRV quote from ANN, it does not really prove what you say it proves, as I see it. The post seems to list several reasons, and other BBRV posts have also raised other reasons. Those reasons do not constitute a "nuisance suit" - unless one throws away quite a few phrases that speak of motivations as well as business and contract.

When a suit is "just a means to shut Bill McEwen up and force Amiga Inc. into a settlement that might include us obtaining the rights to the Amiga trademarks and the classic OS." I'd say that would be a nuisence suit.  

Your more personal comments about my posting style are simply irrelevant to the topic, and as in the past you seem to be rather antagonistic...

They weren't intended to be personal, just an observation.  They aren't irrlevant, they were my explanation of why I mentioned Phoenix alongside Genesi.

Please post examples of my antagonistic behaviour. It's so little I post on here that I can't remember what I said where.  Most of my postings on here recently have been help, information or general chit-chat and totally devoid of politics.

Or is it just the case that it's easier to try and label me a troll rather than engage in a proper discussion.

If I speak with authority it is because I present my observations and experiences in my style, usually without trying to go inflammatory. That does not constitute PR, though I do try to choose my words so as not to splatter invective and hearsay into a discussion when I am at my best ;  }

Making a point of your connections, talking about another company with the kind of insights you claim to have all smacks of PR to me.  From what I see whether you want to or not you function as PR to Genesi - always there to the defence, always there with Phoenix's spin on events when Genesi/MOS/pegasos come up as the topic of conversation.

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Tigger wrote:

Bill Buck has talked often about selling a MorphOS CD for the Mac, thats a pretty huge market, and lots of available hardware.

 

Bill Buck says many things, just because he talks about it makes it no more true.  Besides the CD you are talking about is always refered to not as a full operating system, but rather some kind of autorun CD (you play games or something from MOS hosted IIRC - I'd have to check the exact quotes)

This week, Ben once again basically blew the thought of running Amiga on Macs out of the water, despite the fact you can buy a more powerful Mac for the large premium we have on AmigaOne branded Teron boards.   The entire structure of how Amiga OS is being done has driven it away from other hardware choices, and thats unfortunate for several reasons.

When it is released it will be available to CS as well as A1, that's twice as many platforms than MOS is publically available for.  It's not worth going into this now as this is OT and been done to death.  All I can say is anyone who honestly believes that anyone is whiter than white on this issue, as a complete fool.

    Whether MorphOS is available to purchase for other hardware solutions today, isnt the issue in my opinion, the fact that Genesi is willing to discuss and work towards other solutions is a big step in the right direction,

Is it not the issue because you don't like the fact?  What fact that Genesi is is willing to working with others?  Previous posting on the web would indicate otherwise when talking about the Amiga market.  Unless you just swallow the company line, like many seem so willing to.  I still find it funny how with all these problems that have occured around Genesi it is always someone else's fault.

 one that the Amiga Inc (Fleecy) plan doesnt support.  
   

That's odd, one of the things people were whinging about a while back was the fact that during MOS/Amiga discussions, amiga wanted to seperate Ralph + co from Bplan so SW and HW were independant.

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Warface wrote:

When it is released it will be available to CS as well as A1, that's twice as many platforms than MOS is publically available for.

MorphOS has a Pegasos and Blizzard/CyberstormPPC version as well. "twice as many platforms" is a pretty laughable argument against MorphOS to be honest, as OS4 is not available at all...

Read again When it's released

Are Blizzard/CSPPC versions publically available? No. Which was that whole point of me mentioning it. Whoever it was was complaining about AOS being limited to one platform, which is not true, while on it's release and to this very day, MorphOS is only available to the public by buying a Pegasos despite the fact these other versions apparently exist.

What I find laughable is that the only argument I can find against this is the old "it hasn't been released yet" chesnut.

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bbrv wrote:
Hi Andy/unchartered, you have a certain spin on all this that is not completely factual.  You have twisted events, conjecture and opinion into a historical mess.  But, no worries!  :-)  .  Your posts help us understand the distortion out there in some minds.  We will keep marching ahead, attending presentations, recruiting new developers, bringing new operating systems and applications to the platform and eventually one day you and others will see things in a new light.

You know what, you're totally right, my mind is totally distorted.

Yes I must of twisted things, by using fact, varifyable evidence and direct quotes from yourself.  I feel so ashamed that I logically, methodically, and thoughtfully took apart peoples comments, and presented evidence for what I was saying.  I can't tell you how bad it was of me to counter each of Greenboy's arguments so well that he felt the need to play tag-team posting with GaryC.

I've been a total fool, I should of followed everything you said, believed every last word, you, your employees and associates said on every matter.  I was such a fool for thinking for myself, researching, asking questions, engaging in adult debate.

In fact it was just downright rude of me to ask questions that you'd have to dodge, like "Did members of the MOS team have access to the OS source code during Escom Amiga era?" and "Why does it appear in the emails published by Samface on ANN that you organise postings to certain forums?"

In short I can only apologise to yourselves, your employees, your fans, and customers, by not sycophantically praising every little announcement you've ever made, not complaining about/trolling every announcement made by Hyperion/Eyetech/Amiga, and not hijacking every last AmigaOne/OS 4 thread on the internet to tell everyone exactly how much better Pegasos/MOS is.

I'm off to buy a Peg2 now.......

Oh yeah, I don't know what your next announcement will be, but......WOOHOO You rock, man. HYPEos Suxxx....in advance.

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bhoggett wrote:
Well, I don't think we should be talking about things in advance here. There is no point talking about a syatem as it is currently marketed and comparing it against something that isn't even released yet.

Your right Bill, I just got drawn into the arguement I guess.

The main point was that Hyperion's marketing stratagy with regards to OS 4 is not more restricted than Genesi's in fact Genesi won't even support existing hardware that MOS apparently already runs on.