Alans reply to Bill

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Wayne wrote:
It's interesting to see Alan coming out (if it really was him) with a blatant personal attack on Bill Buck where Bill Buck's comment was a sequence of events and was in no way a personal attack or "FUD" (I now loathe that stupid term).

I'm sorry I don't get this.  When Bill Buck and company is rude, abusive, dives into namecalling ("Wannbe lawyer" ring a bell?) or even posts confidential emails or publishes someone's personal details on ANN or calls those giving words of support to Hyperion "morons".  He is being "blunt", "direct" or just "controversial" or "truthful" and that's OK.

But if Alan Redhouse retailiates then that is unacceptable?  Sure fighting fire with fire isn't the best thing to do, but why is Bill excused in his behaviour, but Alan is not?

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redrumloa wrote:

Sigh even Alan is speaking in camps. Don't do it Alan, step away from the keyboard :-x

Camps are there, you can't deny it.  The lines were drawn in the sand a long time ago.

Sad, yes. Pathetic, yes - considering what we're talking about here for the most part is just a hobby. But that is the way things stand.

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@Wayne

I wasn't suggesting that this particular posting was in any way offensive or rude. (Although you must admit the sole motivation was probably not honesty with the "community").  It does seem as though on previous occasions that Bill has been granted more leeway.

For the most part I agree with you.  The situation would be a hell of a lot better if all those involved kept thier traps shut in the first place instead of letting the arguements spill over into public forums.

The uniqueness of the Amiga "community" I suppose.

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amigamad wrote:
edited by admin : personal attack

Well, that well thought out articulated arguement.  I'm sure you've now convinced everyone here that you are right.

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logain wrote:

When Alan gets angry, he often completly lose his
mind and spread FUD and personal insults to
degrees never seen before.

Very bad acting..

You mean like this?

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Wayne wrote:
@uncharted

Why are you so desperate to turn this around on Bill Buck?  Both are guilty of personal overreactions.  That was the only point of my initial comment.

In this case, "Alan" (again, quoted because it might not be him) acted badly.  

Both are equally guilty of being human and acting as such when they feel provoked.  It reflects badly on everyone when it happens.  Just don't expect either man to act less than human when it comes to the other party.

You misunderstand, this isn't trying to turn this back on Bill, as I said before, there was nothing I would consider abusive or rude at any stretch of the imagination.  Whilst I am suspicious of the motives behind the postings or if the events depicted are  as it happened, there is no way I can make anything bad out of Bill's statement.

What gets me is how people are so quick to condemn "Alan" yet jump to the defence of Bill during similar or worse incidents.  If you like I'm trying to balance it out, by pointing out (as you have said yourself) that this happens sometimes to everyone.

Personally I don't see much wrong with this statement, (in fact I'd say the things are the way they are now becuase X pissed off Y at some point in the past and both have too much pride to put differences aside) but then again I don't have much respect for either individual, niether is the perfect angel the blind followers on either side make them out to be.

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meerschaum wrote:
uncharted to me its like this...you need to 'earn' my respect and admiration... Alan hasnt done that.... has he created a motherboard? has he created an OS? has he come down to the grass roots level to talk to people like me and others about the platform?..... he'll win my respect when he does some of those things....
I hope BBRV dosent sink down to the level of responding to his post there... if indeed that is/was his post...

I agree If you want respect it needs to be earnt.  However niether of the two people in question have done the things you mention.  Both have bought into someone elses motherboard (Alan's case Mai's teron, Bill's case BPlan's pegasos) and OS (Alan - Hyperion through licensing via Amiga Inc. Bill - through the efforts of the MorphOS team)  I have witnessed both take part in forums and mail-lists and both talk to "ordinary" people face to face at WOASE, but I wouldn't say that would be something to respect, but rather expect.

There are only a handful of people in this community that I actually hold true respect for:-

The Freidens
Felix Schwartz
The AROS Team
Olaf Barthel
Bernie Mayer
Davy Wentzler
Neil Bothwick
Bill Bosari
SimoAmi
Wayne Hunt

Maybe I shouldn't of singled people and groups out, but hey, these are all great guy's who's effort and work is greatly appreciated by me and who I think have good community related motives behind their effort and support. Whether or not I always agree with them is a differnt matter :-)

I too hope that Bill doesn't lower himself into a reply, it won't do anyone any good. But if it does turn out to be Alan, please recognise  that Bill has also had his "moments" in the past.  As Wayne said we are only human.

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Wayne wrote:

Before you Redcoats start banging the war drums

Man, you Yanks can't go 5 minutes without bringing up the War of Independence can you? :lol: :lol:

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meerschaum wrote:

niether of the two people in question have done the things you mention

BPlan is part of Genesi... MorphOS team is part of Genesi... Genesi therefore holds credit for all those things... BBRV bieng the head of Genesi does deserve credit for bringing it all together...

. Both have bought into someone elses motherboard

BPlan is part of Genesi... and BPlan makes the Pegasos... pegasos is not someone elses product re-badged

I give BBRV and Genesi credit... BBRV took all the elements and brought them together into one complete company... to create a complete solution... to me thats a far cry from 'you pay me and I'll let you make an OS" ....

I'm afraid that's flawed logic.  In the orginal statement Bill himself stated that he wasn't involved with BPlan until November 2001. MorphOS was already available as a CSPPC beta, and Bplan had announced the Pegasos (Although then it was called the AmigaOne :-D ) waaay back in 2000 so I would think it would be safe to assume that the project was already well advanced.  Sure Bill took a chance on the project and funded it, to which he deserves credit.  

But to me throwing money at something does not warrent me to respect someone.  In different ways they both bought into someone else's development, took a risk and invested.  Yeah I can see there being 1001 of the usual suspects disagreeing with me, and trying to tell me that every thing Genesi is better and that Bill is the saviour of the Amiga platform.  But look closely and think about it carefully and you'll see I'm right.

I think you are confusing things here because Genesi are one entity whereas the opposition are 3 seperate companies.  Alan never did "you pay me and I'll let you make an OS", in fact aside from the fact that Hyperion provided the BIOS for MAI, Eyetech have absolutely jack all to do with OS 4.  Comparing like for like Bill's counterpart in all this would erm, Bill - the other Bill, the "Head of the Amiga infrastructure".  In this case Bill B would beat Bill M hands down if your were to compare them.

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Targhan wrote:

Your opinions are based on pure propaganda, mis-information, and sad attempts to destroy the real spirit of Amiga.  You have become so bitter that I can only feel sorry for both of you.

It's tempting to mention glass houses.

Let's be honest here, there is very little else but bitterness left.  Trying to lay the blame at one party's door is never going to wash.  At the end of the day this whole self distruction stems from pride and arrogance stemming back from the days of C=