3G

[Oliver]

I used old Apple products a lot, when I had no choice. Had some good points, but so many bad points.

I didn't use Apple for a number of years, and was really looking forward to using OSX. I have had to provide support for OSX quite a bit over the past year, and I have to say it is one of the worst computing experiences of my life.

I think the main good thing that Apple has done recently, is their user interfaces. They have not been in teh least bit innovative with their fundamental technologies. They have done some interfaces which a lot of people can feel comfortable with. I think the iPhone interface is great. However, I have no problem with a more complicated, low cost interface for the same functionality.

Unfortunately, the OSX interface cripples some good underlying technology. I have found so many problems with the automated, and high level behaviour of the OS, that I really can't stand to use it. In particular, OSX's attempts to manage network protocols is just simply wrong, and wrong in some really fundamental ways. As a communications engineer, this really pissed me off when I had to use some OSX machines on various networks. I don't know how the programmers could get away with screwing it up in that way. Being Apple, of course, they make it painful to override anything the OS decides is right.

I also can't stand the current finder. POS.

I need low level access in any machine I use, as I invariably make my machines do non standard things. This is not impossible with OSX, but it is painful.

The alternative OS products have their problems too, but they are much easier for me to work around.

Meh. Apple is a great marketing machine, and has had some great interface design work, but just way too painful for me to work with.

edit- I should qualify my comments by saying that I think Apple products can be really excellent for users who use their technology in very standard ways, that the Apple designers intended them for. This includes use of particular software and hardware. However, I believe that a computer should be flexible, and Apple have never provided ease of flexibility - they make one work too hard for it.

[Oliver]

amigadave wrote:...
@Oliver
and most people want Apple or Microsoft to control how their computers,...

I agree with what you are saying, and I also think it is a really good design goal to have technology just provide functionality to the user, without the need to control the technology itself. I think this would be great if it actually worked correctly. However, some of the high level behaviour of OSX does not work correctly at all, and has some fundamental errors which should really not occur.

Even this kind of error is tolerable (it is a big system, with ambitious endeavours, and some issues are to be expected), if you can have reasonable low level access to work around the errors. Working around these problems, as usual with the Apple design approach, is rather more difficult than it should be.

Although a lot of praise is given to Apple's user interface designs, I find them difficult to work with, as they don't offer me easy access to the controls I need to use. I really liked the old Amiga approach, where most things worked fairly well at a high level (relative to what was available at the time), and there was also really good low level access to those who wanted it.

This is one major reason why I don't like using OSX.

There are other reasons why I don't like it, but these are more a matter of personal preference.

Overall, I do think their computer products are overpriced, and underperforming, but they provide something which a lot of people are happy to pay for.

I do respect Apple's marketing. Very slick. Again, on a personal note, I just don't like this kind of slick marketing. The marketing is fine, in itself, but I do think real information should be available for those who want it.

As for iPods, I get frequently annoyed by people who think the technology is really innovative. This is probably a really good testament to the success of the marketing. I think iPod's are well made, and very pleasantly simple, which I think is appropriate for that kind of product. The sound quality is pretty good, but I think a little overrated.

My quite limited experience of the iPhone is very positive. I think it's very well designed. Easy to use. For me, the advantage over my dirt cheap Sony Ericsson is very slim.

Anyway, that's just me.

[Oliver]

@da9000

I didn't want to get into specifics, because I didn't want an argument. I guess that didn't work.

As I mentioned, I haven't used OSX a lot, but what I have done with it, I found to be a pain.

I can offer you some specifics if you really would like to hear it. I am definitely not going to bother listing all the problems I have found with Apple products.

Please understand that I am neither anti-Apple, nor pro-Windows. I have found more annoyances with Macintosh products than I would like to pay the Apple price for, and will not be buying any soon. I did wish to point out that the 'it just works' claim is flawed.

[Oliver]

I can certainly see the value of the iPhone for someone who needs real mobile connectivity. I just don't. As Alex suggested, I am rarely far from a desktop machine. I certainly don't spend anything like that on my mobile contract.

@Bloodline I guess you do business on the move? I'm in an R&D department, and don't have much need to travel.

How good are the personal organiser functions on the iPhone? Is it really convenient and fully featured? I haven't yet found anything I will use other than desktop apps for this. I only really derive schedules, appointments, meetings from project plans anyway. If it could perform that function well, that would be a lot more attractive to me. As it is, I only use my phone's organiser as a reminder service, synced to desktop apps.

I think I will not be really happy with a PDA until there is robust and convenient handwriting interpretation. So far, I am yet to be really impressed, though I haven't bothered looking in depth for some time.

[Oliver]

bloodline wrote:I WANT A FRONT CAMERA ON MY iPHONE!!! :-D

I've always had one, and never used one. I don't really see the point.

A friend got a pair of video phones to talk to his girlfriend in a more personal manner. She would only answer his video calls if she had a chance to get made up for the call (not very often, in practice).

If I am on a mobile, the last thing I want to look at is the phone, as I will generally use it when I am on the go.