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Author Topic: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86  (Read 43513 times)

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Offline Hammer

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« on: October 25, 2010, 12:44:42 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;586849
I think you guys are missing a vital point.
If AOS4 was ported to X86 processors, do you really think they'd sell a lot more copies? Or would most PC users still continue to use Windows, OSX, and maybe Linux?
Who would they sell it to? Us, the fanatics willing to still support this market (and there really aren't many of us).

Why are we constantly rehashing our personal opinions on platforms when we already have variants covering every major processor type except ARM?

And I'm baffled at the X1000 bashing. If you don't like the high price (which again folks is primarily caused by the low volume limited market) and you want an X86 machine support AROS. Yes the X1000 is overpriced, but I'm know the designer and Treavor hired to only company I'm aware of that could have built a machine to this spec. It may be the last major PPC system introduced, and yes its definately a vanity machine because its spec are damned nice.
Further if PPCs are dead, why are Appliedv Micro and Freescale still introducing new models?

Again, no matter what your prejudice, there's an Amiga related system available (or about to be introduced) that will suit you.
Totally into pain? Stick with legacy hardware. Its still out there (even NOS systems) and there's still software and hardware being developed for it. And if you're patient (and have a lot of faith) you can wait for the Natami.
Those of us who have gotten over the whole "Amiga" name things and just want to continue to evolve are using MorphOS (and we welcome Hyperion to the PPC table because virtually any software created for AOS4 is likely to be ported to MOS).

And again, want to use only one core of your X86 machine and tout a 3d graphics system that's still pretty buggy? Use AROS, because they will keep improving it.
(SNIP)

Intel Core i5/i7 includes Turbo Boost feature.

When the processor has not reached its thermal and electrical limits and the user's workload demands additional performance, the processor clock frequency will dynamically increase in increments of 133 MHz on short and regular intervals until a thermal or power limit is reached or the maximum speed for the number of active cores is reached. Conversely, when any of the limits are reached or exceeded, the processor frequency will automatically decrease in increments of 133 MHz until the processor is again operating within its limits.
- wiki


An example, my Intel Core i7-740QM (4 cores/8  threads) @1.73Ghz overclocks to 2.93Ghz during single thread task.

With 3 or 4 cores active: to 1.86 GHz
With 2 cores active: to 2.53 Ghz
With only 1 core active: to 2.93 Ghz


Another example , i7-920XM with normal operating frequency is 2.0GHz

With 3 or 4 cores active: to 2.26GHz —————> 2000 + 2 × 133.33 = 2000 + 266.66 ≃ 2266
With 2 cores active: to 3.06GHz ———————> 2000 + 8 × 133.33 = 2000 + 1066.64 ≃ 3067
With only 1 core active: to 3.20GHz —————–> 2000 + 9 × 133.33 = 2000 + 1199.97 ≃ 3200

The older Intel Core 2 Duo T7x00 includes a limited Turbo Boost feature.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 12:50:07 PM by Hammer »
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Offline Hammer

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2010, 11:41:33 AM »
Quote from: kolla;587325
No, it was alot more about sticking with Motorola - Apple were the jerks that killed the PowerPC when they ruined the marked by preventing MacOS licensing to CHRP machines.

People seem to forget history around here :P

According to Steve Jobs, the clones are unwilling to pay higher licensing cost.
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Offline Hammer

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2010, 01:16:08 PM »
Quote from: the_leander;587450
I imagine that whilst there is some truth to that, the idea of other OS's running up and possibly beating them on their own hardware didn't make Jobs all that happy. This is backed up by the fact that they refused point blank to supply the necessary info to Be Inc regarding post CHRP hardware.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maIgu_7oLm0

Steve Jobs increased the license fees.
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Offline Hammer

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2010, 04:28:05 AM »
Quote from: Heiroglyph;586446
As stated at AmiWest 2010, they still have no interest in x86.

I suppose selling a handful outdated slow overpriced computers somehow makes them more money than selling good software that runs on fast commodity hardware.

Greed > user experience.

Unbelievable.


From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z196_CPU

IBM has CISC z/Architecture CPU with a new superscalar, out-of-order pipeline with 5.2Ghz speeds. Like any modern X86, this IBM Z-Arch CISC CPU includes CISC-to-RISC hybrid design.
Z196 was announced on July 22, 2010.

It looks like IBM is going to fight Intel/AMD X86-64 with it's own 1970s 64bit CISC ISA CPU.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 04:35:35 AM by Hammer »
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Offline Hammer

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2010, 06:18:28 AM »
Quote from: ElPolloDiabl;590056

So IBM can actually design what they say they will as opposed to intel who lets marketing department run design?
I think the same of Motorola, they were pretty unreliable.

My point, the RISC migration adventure was a waste of time. IBM has created a 21st Century upgrade for thier 1970s Z-Arch CISC CPU.

As for Intel marketing...

Pentium IV's path was not compatible with laptop PC vs desktop PC thrends
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 06:26:11 AM by Hammer »
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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2010, 06:38:01 AM »
Quote from: runequester;590065
these things weren't as clear as they are in hindsight.

And well, there's a crapton of power PC processors being sold for the gaming consoles. I'd imagine more than enough to keep someone employed.

The desktop computer market isn't everything.

Erm, IBM Z CPU is in the HPC market....

HPC market would have IBM Z (64bit CISC**) vs IBM Power(64bit RISC) vs AMD X64(64bit CISC**) vs Intel X64 (64bit CISC**). Looks like Intel Itanium (VLIW/EPIC) is dead.

**Hybrid CISC-to-RISC designs. Keep the old software and run it faster concept.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 06:52:46 AM by Hammer »
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Offline Hammer

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2010, 08:04:40 PM »
Quote from: minator;590101

Interesting, the previous Z11 was a pure CISC chip, this is just mostly CISC.

It can only be a matter of time before it gets merged with POWER though.
.

Your speculation.

Quote from: minator;590101

No, the Z series is for mainframes only. It's exotic and highly expensive hardware and they make vast sums of money from it.
.

The context was HPC. Like Power, Z also uses large package MCM format.

Quote from: minator;590101

But you're saying the opposite - everyone has gone RISC internally.
.

Not externally hence my CISC-to-RISC hybrid context.

Quote from: minator;590101

Anyway, in the embedded market RISC is king and it's much, much bigger than desktop.

Mostly dominated by ARM not PowerPC. Prove PowerPC has superior numbers over X86 in annual unit sales.

Before ARM, the "most popular RISC chips on the (embedded) market" was AMD 29K. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Am29000
The embedded market doesn’t worry about legacy software investments.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 08:10:31 PM by Hammer »
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Offline Hammer

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2010, 06:40:22 AM »
Quote from: Karlos;590209
Is this on the presumption that this theoretical AmigaOS4.x x86 would have all the features it does now, but runs on x86?

I would suggest that this wouldn't be the case. You'd likely get a version which would have no more support for 68K apps than AROS does now (via UAE) and may not support PPC apps (including some written for 4.x PPC if not still actively developed) at all.

In theory, AROS can be modified for Amithlon's GCC "Big endian" X86 mode.
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Offline Hammer

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2010, 06:46:04 AM »
Quote from: Karlos;590186
I dunno, does AROS PPC run legacy 68K (and some legacy PPC) executables?

I don't recall AROS PPC having AOS4's style 68K emulator....
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Offline Hammer

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Re: Ben Hermans still staunchly against x86
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2010, 06:51:18 AM »
Quote from: Karlos;590169

As an aside, hands up everybody here that would actually buy an x86 version of AmigaOS considering AROS is already on x86 and is completely free?

Depends if X86 version has the entire "OS4.1".

Anyway, AROS has emumiga. http://emumiga.com/about/
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