Power 5 to hit 3GHZ, but thats just for starters

[Hammer]

It's hard enough to get people to use a different OS other than Windows.

Via http://www.pricewatch.com/

"Lindows** PC" is an alternative option (within the X86 market).

**Commercial Linux distro...

[Hammer]

The Power5 is a multicore server chip which is incredibily powerful and leaves a Pentium IV in the dust even if it ran at 12 Ghz.

That's maybe true IF Intel did not apply any IPC increases with their designs...

[Hammer]

Not unless you could get it to ship w/ the (mass market "sheep" ) computer pre-installed or dual-bootable.

It’s funny that it took a “commercial X86 Linux vendor”(i.e. non-free Linux distro) to break into Wal-Mart targeted PC markets. I don’t think the mass desktop PC market is ready for 'shovelware'  Linux distros. At least they (Lindows) started off a bit better than 'OS/2 Warp PCs'…

These sheep has needs and wants. For fill those needs and wants then you’ll get the business. BeOS departed from Window'ish familiarly i.e. learn from Lindows‘s experiences (i.e. look'a'like WinXP with Linux/GNU).   BeOS's presentation is to foreign for most desktop users…

Note that Windows PPC PC failed by the way side due to relative hardware cost and poor Motorola support… Even Microsoft's Windows brand can't rescue PowerPC for mass desktop OS use.

[Hammer]

The P4 actually decreased IPC by around a third. The P4 at 1.5GHz was beaten by a P3 at 1GHz.

That true to a limited extent but your not encapsulating the whole picture.

Pentium 4 (Northwood A core) increase their IPC compared to Pentium 4 (Willamette core) due to minor 512Kb L2 cache increase and switching to .13 micron  processes.

IPC is further increase in Canterwood (Intel’s answer to nForce2) due to FSB increase.  The next minor IPC increase will be due to 1Mb L2 cache increase. Intel is not that stupid when they reached a clock speed barrier with the current designs.  Not factoring in hypertreading (with Northwood B core) due to problems with some applications.

Further minor IPC increases will be applied in the
Prescott  (planned Q4 2003 release)          
http://www.chip-architect.com/news/2003_03_26_Prescott_clues_for_Yamhill.html

Thats how the 970 at 2GHz gives the P4 a good run for it's money at 3GHz.

Depends on application being run…
e.g.
1. Apple’s Quake 3 number is in conflict with most major X86 PC sites (most of them running at 400+FPS.
2. Pentium 4’s problems with Portland group’s complier V4 i.e. structural problem with Intel's SSE2.
3. Pentium 4’s narrow application in regards to SSE2 (generally benefits games not scientific applications).
4. Problems with Apple's claims.

References
http://www.overclockers.com/tips00408/

http://www.amdzone.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1296&page=2

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=10292
(PGI compiler V5.0(cite 32bit version) improvements over V4**).

http://www17.tomshardware.com/graphic/20021218/vgacharts-05.html
(nForce2/AthlonXP vs Pentium 4(533FSB)(mostly  entertainment bias benchmarks)

http://members.cox.net/craig.hunter/g5/
(PS; Portland Complier V4** for Pentium 4)

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=10155

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_1274_3734^3750,00.html
(AMD Athlon™ XP processor 3200+ in entertainment bias benchmarks).
 

When the POWER5+ "consumer version" appears (second revision of the 980?) it should be I'd guess around 3.5GHz, don't know where Intel will be but I suspect by then the IBM will be outgunning them performance wise.

How can you conclude "IBM will be outgunning them performance wise" then you haven't satisfied "don't know where Intel will be"?

[Hammer]

A 1.5GHz POWER4+ can outgun a P4 running at 3.2GHz...

"Power 4" out guns "Pentium 4" in price… Some people didn’t learn from Alpha > Pentium Classic days….

[Hammer]

And 'reputable' is irrelevant here since SPEC.org doesn't take any responsibility/accountability for results submitted READ THE DISCLAIMER!

"Accountability" did not appear in http://www.spec.org/spec/disclaimer.html

SPEC only state "... submissions by member companies and the contents of any SPEC reporting page are the submittor's responsibility. SPEC makes no warranties about the accuracy or veracity of this data."

[Hammer]

As for where intel will be - well the next gen P4 is now said to be at 100Watts and Intel are talking about water cooling.

Notice it’s non-mass market release…

If they can't cool the P4 they'll not be able to scale it.

They have to find an engineering solution e.g. .09 micron die strink.

Addendum :

Refer to http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2003/0812/kaigai011.htm (in Japanese) for the Prescott core @3.4Ghz’s planned release for Q4 2003.  

 Indeed, notice how the clock rate increases have slowed recently.

Notice Intel's alternative "Pentium M" release...
Refer to http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=10964

The 970 has shown it is has legs despite the fact it's brand new.

Not quite brand new, refer to "Power 4" ISA.

When it gets a die shrink, better compiler etc. I think things will be very interesting.

Note that both is at .13 microns.

[Hammer]

Problem with the Alpha was although they had the best technology DEC didn't know how to sell it. IBM on the other hand do know how to sell which is why things they are spending millions developing things like POWER5 and POWER6

How could one equal 'R&D' to 'selling'?  Selling/Marketing is quite different to R&D.

[Hammer]

Since when has Intel done anything other than Mass market CPUs?

That was not point. The point was; economically viability for the mass market. This includes ISV/distribution channels support infrastructure..

Refer to http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=2462
(Intel demos fanless, cool 5GHz chip).
 

What happend to moores law???

This is not first time that they hit a speed wall. Refer to Intel’s Pentium III 1.13Ghz (pre-Tualatin release) era for their attempts to break the barrier.

Also there are additional instructions for runing 32 bit OSs.

What about the earlier 64bit/32bit PowerPC 601?

 

The 970 isn't a POWER4, it's based on it yes
but there are differences, not least Altivec.

Note; Altivec tweaked programs there are available for the PowerMac G4...

Note that Apple used tweaked library for their bench test……

[Hammer]

The 100W refers to Tejas, and the water cooling is for everything from what I read.

What was "Power 4's" watts number again?... (rhetorical question)

[Hammer]

The 100W refers to Tejas, and the water cooling is for everything from what I read.

What was "Power 4's" watts number again?... (rhetorical question)