Quake II on a 68060 @ 50Mhz?

[Hammer]

1.3 GHz Athlon. It takes so long to do anything that I've just given up on it.

There's maybe something wrong with your Athlon box ...

I have an old test Athlon Thunderbird (AXIA) box (@ ~1.33Ghz) that doesn’t have characteristics as your Athlon box (i.e. slowing down effect).

This box has the following;
+ PC133 512Mb SDRAM.
+ Win XP-Pro–SP1.
+ MSI-6330 V3.5 (with RAID HD controller).
+ 7200 RPM 60Gb UltraDMA100 HD (Seagate).
+ nVidia Geforce 2.
+ SBLive 5.1 DE (color ports variant).
+ Hibernating feature works fine.

I have several AMD Athlon based test boxes** to verify this. For example;

Athlon XP @~2.0Ghz
+ Win XP-Pro–SP1.
+ PC3200 512MB DDR (Samsung) (dual channel mode).
+ ASUS nForce 2 Deluxe (SPP/MCP-T)(400Mhz DDR FSB capable)(aggressive FSB/Memory settings).
+ 7200 RPM 80Gb UltraDMA133 HD (Seagate), 7200 RPM 40Gb UltraDMA133 HD (Maxtor).
+ nVidia Geforce 4 TI VIVO (Mepg2/Mepg4/DIVX in real time via the CPU).
+ nVidia Sound Storm (DirectSound/DirectMusic audio accelerator) .
+ Hibernating feature works fine.

**Athlon based Motherboard types limited to MSI and ASUS.
Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition was tested with above set-ups. Hardware operational abnormalities were not detected.  

They are all connected via 100/10BaseT NICs and 16Port D-Link Hub (Usual DVD –ROM/RW/CD-ROM/RW devices remains unlisted).

My WINUAE-JIT setup is at AmigaOS 3.9 (tweaked with usual visual bloating patches).  I tried Amithlon, but I don’t the have time to set-up an Amithlon based X86 PCs, maybe in the holidays.

AmigaOS 4.0 is probably the call card for me in purchasing a PPC based board.   I don’t mind Pegy II but it doesn’t have ‘AmigaOS 4.0’ (sigh)....

Hibernating the PC is problematic on Windows. Once it wakes, your memory as as fragmented

How could that cause the memory to be fragmented? Hibernation file is fundamentally a memory snapshot of your last session.

[Hammer]

Out of the box? No. Two users, both of whom are relative computer "newibes" can be walked through the tweaks in about the same amount of time.

IF the computer shop is worth it’s salt they should have configured the system with stability/optimal speed in mind.

[Hammer]

My PC hardware isn't impressive: the HD is probably 'generic' UDMA

What kind of chipset does you Athlon box employs?
Are you using UDMA66/100 IDE cabling?
Have you run MS’s Boot’Vis utility?  
How aggressive is your memory timings?

I only have 128MB of RAM

Try increasing it to at least another 64Mb.  
I have a test Celeron @500Mhz box that has 192Mb and it run XP-Home fine (i.e. closer to WinXP’s ideal memory model).

I have a system that is so unusably slow that even my family complain about it.

Sad to hear.  

I think, there are websites that covers on how to lighten up your XP setup (e.g. what services to turn off). There might be some Amiga.org members may offer some ways to lighten your XP set-up.

[Hammer]

Yes, it's a pile of crap. I could build a better PC with my eyes shut. As mdma said, it's a Time computer.

A Time Computer? I'm not familiar with that particular brand or make.  

Memory under Windows will inevitably become more fragmented. Since the whole memory list must be parsed until it reaches a memory slot large enough on each memory allocation, fragmented memory means more parsing and therefore is mem allocs are much slower and cause a lot of VM paging to go on. This is why people complain that Windows, when left a few weeks online, becomes a lot slower. In fact, after a few days intensive usage Windows should be able to do nothing else but whack the HD.

There are utilities that defrags your memory at periodical basis.

Secondly, our company's development Pentium 4 1.8Ghz (with 850 chipset + ~1Gb Rambus RAM) server** (always online) doesn't have these characteristics e.g.  "In fact, after a few days intensive usage Windows should be able to do nothing else but whack the HD".

**PS Runs on Windows 2000 Advance Server.

For Linux "memory fragmentation" issues refer to
http://www.surriel.com/zone-alloc.html

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Linux+%22memory+fragmentation%22+&meta=

In a real perspective, Linux does have its own share of memory fragmentations.

A solution against memory fragmentations refer to
http://www.rsinc.com/services/techtip.asp?ttid=3346&PV=YES

[Hammer]

KennyR wrote:
Time Computers are a UK company that specialise in making really substandard PCs look cheaper and better than building one themselves. Their customer support is terrible, their hardware is substandard, and I strongly recommend anyone reading this not to choose this company. Their PCs are custom branded but their motherboards are usually cheap, poor brands.

What kind of motherboard brands are they using (specifically your motherboard type)?  

I notice some of their PCs lines uses a Microstar International a.k.a MSI. The same motherboard manufacture for Dell Computers (some of their product lines).

I know of several cheap motherboard brands e.g. Luckytech, Luckystar, Asrock (ASUS’s arm for cheap HW), Gigabyte, PCpartner, PCchips, Chaintech  and 'etc'.

With nForce I/II based chipsets the mobo brands they can range from the follows vendors;
. ABIT
· Albatron
· AOpen
· ASUS
· BIOSTAR
· Chaintech  
· DFI
· EPoX
· FIC
· Gigabyte
· Jetway
· Leadtek
· MSI
· Shuttle
· Soltek
(mobo list from nforcershq.com)

[Hammer]

But the performance impact of these things shouldn't really cause XP to be so slow.

They do actually, especially on VIA based chipsets.  
It could be the differences between capturing real time TV capturing without dropping a frame VS dropping alot of frames. This is especially  true on the older VIA chipsets.

Not much of a problem with nForce II since I’m personally still using MS WinXP's UDMA IDE drivers).
 

UDMA66/100 cabling: Don't know.

You can know your UDMA mode via
"Press Windows key + Pause key" -> click to "Hardware" tab->  click to "Device manager" button -> click right button mouse "Properties" menu (on top of "IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers") -> "Advance Settings" tab.

My current nForce II box’s UDMA mode is at 'Ultra DMA Mode 5**'. The MSI 6330 V3.5 box is also operating (remote desktop access) at 'Ultra DMA Mode 5' (this is via  the old VIA 686B southbridge
;-) ).  

** Slower slave UDMA100 HD was fitted on the same IDE channel (due to personal file transfers). It should be at 'Ultra DMA Mode 6'.

What about yours?

Judging from your Athlon (I’m guessing it's a Thunderbird core) 1.3 Ghz’s (without over clock) age and your chipset is VIA, one could guess that your VIA chipset would be in region of KT133x or KT266x. Unless you recently upgraded to VIA KT333x/KT400 class.  VIA KT400A has substantially improved due to Nvidia's nForce II competition.

Does your Athlon box uses DDR SDRAM or normal SDRAM?

MS Boot'Vis: No.

This is a free MS utility that optimises your XP setup i.e. in regards to boot time and how many NT services should be turned on.  

Memory timings: Don't know.

Where does one begin? One could write pages on this topic. This is related to your BIOS settings.

Time probably gave me two 64MB DIMMS, or even worse, four 32MB ones. I'd need to buy at least 128MB DIMM. It's too costly a step for me, considering it's not even my computer. And I have no idea what kind to buy, or whether they'd conflict with my current ones...

But you bought a Pegy??(I think you did...).   Was your Pegy pre-configured?  Did you assemble this by yourself?

[Hammer]

Well, I have still no idea of my motherboard brand or revision. The PC's Device Manager doesn't help and I got no maunuals or drivers with the PC. However, most controllers on the board are VIA.

What about SiSandra2003?  

Ok, running at Ultra DMA Mode 5. HD access still uses up all CPU time, though.

Sounds like a VIA KT class chipset. At least VIA KT133A. IF your motherboard's PCB colour has a pink/reddish in colour, it’s certainly (or a good bet) a MSI built motherboard.

I don’t think Intel will manufacture X86 motherboards for the Athlon CPU series. That's leave us just the Gigabyte brand.

Almost certainly non-DDR. I can't verify this though.

Can you write down the BIOS text*** after the Video's BIOS initiations? (Press the pause/break key to pause).

**During initial memory checking phase.

For example, one of my old test machine has the following output

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Award Modular BIOS v6.00PG  , An Energy Star Ally
Copyright (C) 1984-2002, Award Software, Inc

W6330 v3.6 100702 10:00:51

Main Processor : AMD Athlon(tm) 1400 Mhz
Memory Testing :  524288 OK

Primary Master :  Sony CD-RW CRX140E 1.0n
Primary Slave  :  Samsung DVD SD-616F F103
Secondary Master  :  ST360011A
Secondary Slave  : Maxtor 2B020h1 WAH21PB0

Press DEL to setup SETUP

10/07/2002-8363-686B-6A6LMM4AC-00
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This immediately tell us the following.

1."W6330" relates to MSI-6330 (this is true for other MSI based boards e.g. MSI-3xxx). This directly related to MSI's user manual PDF downloads.
2. "v3.6" is the BIOS revision. May also relates to motherboard revision e.g. this board is 6330 V3.  
3. "100702" is date for BIOS's build creation.
4. I have to decode "8363-6A6LM4AC-00" from a utility.

Since I got not motherboard or BIOS manual, I'm forced to leave these settings well alone. There's nothing much I can do, anyway, since most of the memory settings are ghosted and can't be changed.

Some memory settings may rely from another setting for it to be turned on.  Refer to the above.

The Pegasos Open Firmware "BIOS" was pre-configured and optimised by bPlan for the Pegasos-1 and has no obvious hardware settings anyway.
.

I thought this board is aimed at the enthusiasts/tinker market...(sigh)...  
 

It's not like a PC BIOS that has to support hundreds of different configurations.

The reason for case is for catering different users. Everybody has different needs and wants. The amount of tweaking capability is the results from intense X86 motherboard competition e.g. some manufactures use this as a marketing tool.

It's just a matter of finding DIMMs and AGP/PCI cards that work, then the machine is fully optimised the moment you turn it on.

On ASUS nForce II based motherboard it has several general BIOS profiles** e.g. aggressive, optimal, safe and ‘etc’.

For motherboard user manuals refer to (without knowing your BIOS's boot text).

http://uk.giga-byte.com/Motherboard/Support/Manual/Manual_Socket+A.htm

http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_list.php?kind=1&CHIP=17&NAME=Archives

[Hammer]

@KennyR
Your "W6378MS" may refer to

http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_detail.php?UID=411&MODEL=MS-6738

Product: KM2M Combo-L (MS-6738). Pink/Redish colour PCB**.

OR

http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_detail.php?UID=22&MODEL=MS-6378

Product: "MS-6738". Green colour PCB. (This is most likely your motherboard, as stated by your mobo PCB's colour). This is the value edition of "KM2M Combo-L (MS-6738)**". One of MSI's value product line up.

The "MS-6738" link includes;
1. BIOS updates (check your motherboard's revision and read the warnings before upgrading the BIOS).
2. User manuals
3. Drivers
4. 'etc'.

Your motherboard spec.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Chipset  
 VIA® VT8361A chipset (552BGA) Chipset
- FSB @ 100 / 133 (200/266)MHz
- Integrated Trident Blade 2D/3D video accelerator
- PCI advanced high performance memory controller
- Support PC 100/133 SDRAM, VCM & ESDRAM technology

VIA® VT82C686A / 686B (352BGA) Chipset
- Enhanced Power Management Features
- Integrated Super I/O (FDC, LPT, COM 1/2 and IR)
- Dual bus Master IDE Ultra DMA 33/66 (686B supports up to  Ultra DMA 100)
- Integrated Hardware Soundblaster
- Direct Sound AC97 Audio
- ACPI  
FSB  
    Support 100/133MHz(200/266MHz Internal System Bus)  
Main Memory  
    - Supports four memory banks using two 168-pin unbuffered
   DIMM.
- Supports a maximum memory size of 1GB (256MB DRAM
   technology).
- Supports 3.3v SDRAM DIMM.
- NO support ECC Function.
Slots  
    * One CNR (Communication Network Riser) slot
* Three 32-bit Master PCI Bus slots
  -- Support 3.3V/5V PCI bus Interface
* One ISA bus slot (optional)
 
On-Board IDE  
    - An IDE controller on the VIA® VT82C686A/686B chipset
   provides IDE HDD/CD-ROM with PIO, Bus Master and Ultra
   DMA 33/66 operation modes (686B can support up to Ultra   DMA 100)
- Can connect up to four IDE devices  
Audio  
    • Audio controller integrated in 686A/686B chipset
- Software audio codec ALC100
- Onboard Front Audio Pin Header (optional)  
Video  
    Integrated Trident Blade 2D / 3D Video Acclerator  
Network (optional)
-- Realtek 8100  
 
On-Board Peripherals  
    On-Board Peripherals include:
-- 1 Floppy port supports 2 FDD with 360K, 720K, 1.2M, 1.44M
   and 2.88Mbytes.
-- 1 Serial port (COM 1)
-- 1 Parallel port supports SPP/EPP/ECP mode
-- 4 USB ports
   (2 rear connectors and 1 USB front pin header- 2 ports)
-- 1 IrDA connector for SIR/CIR/FIR/ASKIR/HPSIR
-- 1 Audio/Game port
-- 1 VGA port  
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The shared memory with CPU and GPU (plus with other I/O operations)  may lead to slight performance degradations  (e.g. bus contentions). This set-up kind of setup will severely cripple the Athlon’s performance. Similar issues when MC680x0 shares its memory/bus with Amiga’s custom chips.

It should be enough for Windows XP(with sufficient memory).

It’s recommended that one should find at least PCI Geforce 2/Geforce4 MX/ Radeon 7500 for maximising your system set-up (i.e. an attempt to free up the main bus for the CPU).

Squeezing 1.3Ghz Athlon, GPU and other I/O operations into 133Mhz SDRAM’s bandwidth is crazy….  

08/16/2001-8361-686B-6A6LMM4SC-00

From memory;
1. "6A6LM" = VIA KT(KM)133 chipset class.
2. "M4" = Micro-star (a.k.a MSI).

It doesn't sound familiar, and the year is not possible. The machine is from 2001.

It’s a system info utility for the Windows platform.