Workbench Disk Sets... What Would Be The Best Way To Obtain Them...

[Fraggle1]

Very interesting. It seems that Commodore's own Tech support didn't know for sure whether they could supply 1.3 Kickstart discs in 1993, ("It may be possible for Commodore dealers ..." - Note "may", rather than "is") & that they didn't have a problem with someone acquiring them from a 'friend', although they DID appear to have issues with WorkBench discs being copied & offered publicly.
Does anyone know if they ever took action against "Slipstream" ?

Of course, it's up to any business how it protects it's copyrights (or not, as the case may be) but it seems to me that Cloanto might be heading up a blind alley if they are trying to block the copying of REAL WorkBench discs with a license that would appear only to cover an emulated environment, especially as they are offering no practical (or legal ?) alternative.

Quite simply, if no one is going to offer a legal route to obtain WB discs then there seems to be no alternative but to obtain them illegally. Whoops ! I mean "from a friend" ;-)
If C= couldn't supply the discs 18 years ago, what chance of it happening now ?

[Fraggle1]

"But Fraggle! Don't you know, you can simply buy Amiga Forever! It's a high-quality emulation package!"

Indeed I could, commodorejohn, but it doesn't appear to contain anything I can't get elsewhere for free. Whoops again ! I mean "from a friend" ;-)

[Fraggle1]

Sorry for following one of Franko's posts yet again, I don't want it look like we're becoming a double act, lol. ;-)

The way I read it is that Cloanto have a license to distribute WorkBench for use in emulation, but not for use on real Amiga hardware.
I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that if they don't have the right to distribute original WorkBench discs, then they don't have a mandate to prevent anyone else from doing so - It would be no different to ME telling Franko to stop doing it.
As desiv says, it looks very much like they are overstepping their license by filing a takedown claim against Franko - Only the true copyright holders can do that, I believe.

This raises further questions, because users of genuine Amiga hardware must surely have a right to possess the software that was originally supplied with the machine & which is vital to the machine's operation ? Are the copyright holders obliged to make the discs available at a reasonable cost ? Are they interested ? (I think we all know the answer to that one, lol ;-)

[Fraggle1]

Wow ! AmigaHeretic's post is VERY informative & shows what a mess the whole thing is.

The way I read it, it's perfectly possible that the copyrights were never part of the deal. This would make a certain amount of sense, because the patents & trademarks may (at that time) have been seen as carrying a value due to the Commodore brand, which was still fresh in the public's memory, & might have been profitably revived, while the copyrights may have been seen as representing little or no value - Even at that time it was obvious that (if it were to be a serious contender) the Amiga needed a major hardware & OS upgrade, so why spend money on buying copyrights to something that would soon be left behind ?

Naturally, if the copyrights were not included in ESCOM's purchase, then they could not have been transferred from ESCOM to Gateway or anyone else later.
Further transfers, which may or may not have been properly concluded, & particularly that in 2007, appear to throw even more doubt upon the current ownership of CBM's copyrights.

@ cgutjahr

Your post makes no sense at all. Being long term Amiga supporters & releasing free software does not give Cloanto ownership of the relevant copyrights. If they choose to make a takedown claim against Franko based purely on their over-zealous interpretation of their license terms, then upon their own heads be it.

[Fraggle1]

I'm impressed ! However, I feel that some questions need answering.

Can a copyright really be "reactivated" ? How is this possible ? You see, as I understand it, if a copyright lapses, then it's subject becomes Public Domain, & if something is Public Domain for even ONE second, then it's Public Domain forever afterwards, & no one can claim it as belonging only to themselves.

Can't contact Amiga International (Germany) as this was a division of Gateway, who no longer own any Amiga property, & why, if Cloanto have a license to distribute genuine WB discs, have they not made this apparent ?
They've obviously been watching this thread & know what the issues are, so why not speak up & let everyone know that the discs are (or should be) available from them ?
What does their silence tell us ?

[Fraggle1]

I disagree that this thread has been a waste of time.
It has at least shown that there are those willing to speak up against the 'grave robbers' who are ripping off REAL Amiga users. My regards to those people, & thankyou.

As for the rest ? Well, they have nothing to say & they're damned well going to say it.
Make a statement - ANY statement - & there are those here who will pick it apart because they are experts in EVERYTHING & they know better. If it's 100% technically correct then they'll make a huge issue about some minor mistake of grammar. Or anything, in fact.

I tell you, if God were a member of this forum, there'd be those who tell him they could have designed the Chaffinch better, that the sky doesn't work properly, or that under certain, artificially engineered lighting conditions, (that can only exist for 1000th of a second) the colour of fruitflies infringes US patent #32460787841743509679646 (1903).
Screw 'em.

[Fraggle1]

"This whole thread has soured me terribly on Cloanto."

Me too. I used to support them, because at least they bring a product to market, (whether you find it useful or not is your own concern) but they've handled this whole affair very badly indeed.
They could have explained themselves right here, so that everyone understood their position, or they could have PM'd Franko & explained it. I'm sure he would have listened to their point of view if it was put to him in a level, reasoned way.

Instead they chose a route that makes them look very poor indeed without answering the question originally posed in this thread. The resulting "discussion" (I use the term loosely, lol) has probably alerted a large number of potential customers that a similar (if not better) package to their own can be put together for free.
If the intention was simply to 'protect' their own interests, then I'd say they just scored a beauty of an own goal.

[Fraggle1]

"Like this hasn't already been common knowledge for the last 15 years..."

Typical amiga.org smartass facecious comment. Not everyone has been here for 15 years. Comprende ?