Read 5.25" DOS floppies on A1200 possible?

[scuzzb494]

Hi all,

I have a external 5.25" diskdrive which I can connect on the diskdrive port on the back of my A1200.

When I boot my A1200 this drives pops up as a DF1: ?

On the back of the drive there are a couple of switches which allows me to select the drive number and switch between 40 or 80 tracks.

When I try to format a 5.25" floppy I get an error: #21

Is it possible to read PC DOS floppies with this drive?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

I have an unbranded 5.25" drive on my A1200 and I wrote this mount file

For PC1 with info set at C:Mount Activate=1 Unit=1 [ thats the info file ]
PC1 in DOSDrivers Devs
FileSystem = L:CrossDOSFileSystem
Device=mfm.device
Unit=2
Flags=1
Surfaces=2
BlocksPerTrack=9
Reserved=1
Interleave=0
LowCyl=0
HighCyl=39
Buffers=20
BuffMemType=1
StackSize=600
Priority=5
Glovec=-1
DosType=0x4D534400
Mount=1

I have it switched on and with 80 track

I tend to use Double Sided Double Density. I can read all my PC DOS disks no problem. I also have the 1060 hooked up to the A1000 so I read PC disks on that machine also. My Checkmate also has 5.25 floppy drive and thats running 2.04. On the 1200 in the main room I only have a 5.25" drive as an external and it runs IFF anim as a kinda screen saver most of the time. I actually prefer the 5.25" drive as I use as a general drive. Floppies last a lot longer than people would have you believe. I have about six drives connected to everything from VICs, C64s and C128s here and they all work without fault. I use a disk head cleaner when I've used an old degraded disk and clogged the head. Another trick is to simply turn the unit upsidedown and back the right way. Works a charm on one drive I have.

I move the 5.25" drive around from machine to machine and use it quite regularly. The trick as I keep saying here is to get your kit working and keep running it. It only degrades through lack of use. Seriously. I have a 1571 hooked up to a C64C mucking around with Simons Basic and it playing up something dreadful when I first used it but after continuous daily use works without fault. Reads and runs all my GEOS stuff no issue. I have a pair of 1570s on another C64 and they also run daily without fault.

So if you do get the drive working keep it oiled by using regularly and it'll keep working.

I recently fitted a 5.25 drive to an IBM PC/1 and runs without fault. Allows me to create DOS disks and the like for the 1060 Sidecar. Amazing that all the manuals were still online and I was able to configure the many jumpers to get the unit working. Great tool. The 5.25" lives on .

[scuzzb494]

Maybe it's just me, but there's something so computery about the 5.25" floppy. Something about this thin sheath of plastic, with its label in the top left resembling a stamp on an envelope, as if I am somehow posting a letter to the computer when I slide it into the drive slot. Silky smooth and near silent as it enters, displaying a higher degree of elegance and purpose than a 3.5" disk and the clunk of the drive as it goes in (unless it's a Mac). And don't get me started on the anti-climax of inserting an SD card.

Like the comeback of vinyl, I wish someone would come up with a new removable recording medium that looked and felt like a 5.25" floppy, but would fit modern data requirements and be able to store several hundreds of GB.

In the post yesterday I received a fresh copy of CP/M for the C128. Machine boots just fine with the new disk. Never anticipated anything otherwise. For me it is the whole locking the disk into place and working it. Great tool I have to say. I have twin drives on the Apple and BBC and whilst the BBC works without fault I have to use a small postcard under the floppy on the Apple to get it to work. Bit of a fiddle but fine all the same. On the Checkmate the drive has illuminating LED showing the tracks speed. They truly are a wonderful bit of retro magic.

[scuzzb494]

Hi

My 5.25" plastic disk box arrived today. To my surprise inside was a 5.25" disk with MS-DOS written on the label. So I hot footed to the A1200 in the next room with the external 5.25" drive and discovered that on the disk was MS-DOS v2.12 with the following files. IBMB10.COM - IBMDOS.COM and IMOUSE.BOO. On the side is a label with a list of disks that use to be in the box. Shame they are not there, but hey, I wasn't expecting a disk in the box anyway.

Turns out that v2.12 was a special version written for the OEM version for the TI Professional in 1983/1984 or Texas Instruments Portable Professional Computer (PPC)

http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=472

All of that gleaned from reading a 5.25" disk on the humble Amiga using an external 5.25" drive and CrossDOS.

So you see... you can read DOS based 5.25" disks on an Amiga external drive and it really doesn't have to be an Amiga drive.

scuzz

[scuzzb494]

If possible, I would appreciate an image of that disk.

I'll see what I can do tomorrow.

Hi again.. How do I create an image of a 5.25" floppy. Silly question.

[scuzzb494]

Hi all. Thanks for all the help!

To mount a PC0 or PC1 drive I will have to edit a file in the drawer DEVS?

Not sure what you mean by: For PC1 with info set at C:Mount Activate=1 Unit=1 [ thats the info file ]

Do I only have to edit this file as in your listing?

I also will need CrossDos for reading DOS floppies?

Sorry, but I am not a very experienced Amiga user. I managed to install WHD load and some games, but that's all.

Hope you can help me setting up my A1200 and the external 5.25 drive step by step to read DOS floppies.

Thanks!

To read a PC disk the first thing you need is the CrossDOSFileSystem in your l [ L ] drawer. This is kinda chicken and egg depending on the way you currently get PC stuff off the web onto your computer. CrossDOS I assume is available from Aminet. The File System came free with loads of Amiga cover disks. Thing is you can activate the normal DF0 so that it can read DD disks and if you have an old PC with a floppy you can format them so they are the lower 880kb size and not the 1.4MB size drive. Older PCs had two options to format floppies. They can format HD disks so they are the lower capacity suitable for the Amiga.

In the Storage drawer on your Amiga there is a PC0 tool which has an associated info file. Most Amiga files come in two parts. The icon that you see is the info file. Without it the tool is not visible on the Workbench normally. The info file or project is the one that has the Unit Number that activates the drive 1 or Unit=1 that I spoke of. As PC0: it is currently set to Unit=0. You can check this by simply highlighting the PC0: from the open drawer in Storage and from the Amiga menu simply click info and you will see an icon (project) window open.

I am not sure how much you know but a simple text editor can open all files on your computer. So with a text editor you can open the PC0 in your Storage DOSDrivers and edit the mount file as I gave you and save it to your DEVS:DOSDrivers drawer as renamed PC1:
Like I say the tool activates the CrossDOSFileSystem in your L drawer and you need to get a copy in that drawer some how. The great thing is that once you have CrossDOS you can insert an 880KB formatted disk from any PC and it will read what is on there.

A good text editor is CED [ CygnusEd ] but there are many. I also use DOPus IV which came free with CUAmiga disk 100. I'm pretty sure you can download the disk from somewhere. DOPus is a file manager. Most cover disks are on the web and they can be downloaded as ADF files. With an ADF file transferred to your computer you can use a tool like ADFBlitzer to create Amiga floppy disks. I guess you know that though. Having cover disks with CrossDOS , SysInfo, SnoopDOS, CED, DOpus are very useful when setting up your Amiga.

The info file is easy to edit. Simply highlight the file in your DEVS:DOSDrivers drawer and then from the Amiga menu simply click info and like magic you will see the icon info box and you can edit the Unit number in there and save. If the icon is not there for some reason copy across the one from your STORAGE: DOSDrivers PC0 and rename it.  As I say I use DOpus for all this.

If you make sure you keep a copy of everything before you start messing about it shoudn't be a problem. Probably better to simply copy the PC0 to your DEVS: DOSDrivers first cus it will then bring with it the Info file.

Info files are great because they also carry the image which makes them great for editing and copying so you can make all your own icons. I use a tool called IconCopy but then I am OS3.0 and 3.1 for the most part and use old icons.

Remember cover disks are a great source of information and tools and they are littered all over the internet. You may already have a Text Editor and know how to use it so sorry if I'm telling you how to suck eggs. OS3.9 comes with a text editor.

That's a start anyway. Have a play. Setting up the system with CrossDOS is your first task. Don't forget to leave a PC0: in the Devs:DOSdrivers drawer or your DF0: wont read PC disks . The rear drive port is DF1: and relates to PC1: So when your done you should have a PC1: and PC0: in the Devs:DOSDrivers drawer.

These will automatically be mounted when you boot your machine. If you don't want that to happen simply put them in another drawer of your making and then click them to activate them when you want to read PC disks. If you click the icon after its been mounted the computer simply advises that the drive is already mounted.

By the way.. 8 and 3 ... eight and three .. there are ways to get around PC file names but if you work in DOS mode it probably is going to help you with your 5.25" drive when its working. DOS file names 8 and 3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8.3_filename

Its why all my web pages are saved as HTM and not HTML. Files on your PC disk will be modified when read by the Amiga. Trouble is the same file name like AmigaWorkbench disk 1
and AmigaWorkbench disk 2 will probably look like Amig~01 and Amig~02 and so making them difficult to work out what they are. Depends on your OS. But be mindful of the issues between PC disks and Amiga file names. CDs are easier to read and ZIPS OK when set up using the FAT system. But that's another story.


Better go. Have fun.

[scuzzb494]

I am interested in this unbranded 5.25" drive and how you ended up connecting it to your Amiga. Can you provide any details on the drive and connection itself?

I have spent some time tonight taking photographs and have edited them for a webpage which I will create tomorrow. Sadly its nearly 2 in the morning and I promised myself an early night.

Back tomorrow.

[scuzzb494]

Hi

Unbranded 5.25" drive

An unbranded 5.25" external drive connected simply to the rear disk drive port on the Amiga 1200 and Checkmate [ The Checkmate is basically an Amiga 500 inside a purpose made metal casing ] Drives can read the 5.25" disks in PC or Amiga format. On the Checkmate the PowerPC board has to be mounted to use the emulator Neither drive has any marking advising of the maker.

I dug out my Amiga 1020 external 5.25" floppy drive simply to compare the physical size of the unbranded unit.

http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/scuzzblog_august17/scuzzblogdaugust17_0101.htm

[scuzzb494]

Never heard of this Checkmate thing you're talking about. I saw something about PowerPC as well. You're description making it work felt a little like, "time travel is easy, just plug the flux capacitor into your 23 pin floppy port and press Ctrl-Amiga-Amiga." Lol

The Checkmate was a special case actually called an Amiga 1500 before the 1500 which housed an Amiga 500. The computer has an external keyboard. The machine also is pretty much expanded to the full for its day. I have two of them fully working. I use the one on a daily basis . It has an A590 and another external SCSI drive plus the floppy and 5.25".

Here is an advert from my website from The JAM

http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/car_1216_05/car_jam_58q.jpg

And here is the machine itself ....

http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/amiga_scuzz86.htm

As for the PowerPC card I will post another response as I need to go get the stuff.


I also have an Amiga 690 ... work that one out if you dare.

[scuzzb494]

I have four of these KCS PowerPC boards . Three are in there original packaging with manuals. The other is in the Checkmate. In addition I have an extensive collection of pre-production disks with various revision numbers setting out the timeline for the release.

Here is a note from the person I purchased a board from ....

August 2003: Titled KCS Power Board

This was supplied without software , as latest version available from Aminet. Went onto their website (www schatztruhe.de ) and downloaded the amiga.gdc, gdc and pc.gdc . Their site advises going into the shell, making the CD the directory containing these files and entering the line ..

gdc amiga.gdc RAM:write

Did this and got the message can't find xpk library

Mailed KCS and they sent me the xpk master libraries . Concluded I had to install these fully in order to run the shell line above. So left it for now.

Copied the KCS drawer to 2 disks , also the xpk liraries , but written on an A1200, so may be fast file system rather than the old file system, so may need to recopy them to use directly on the A500. The KCS drawer refers to the three files amiga.gdc , gdc and pc.gdc

http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/car_libs_009.htm

http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/car_0410/car_0410_184.jpg

I have all the disks. I also have an explanation on a disk for the Checkmate explaining how to boot the machine. In short the card was suppose to emulate a PC.

EASY PC .. ' Can a little widget the size of an internal ram expansion really turn your A500 in to PC? Keith Pomfret sees 4,096 colours change into 4 before his very eyes. September 1990 JAM 11.

The PC Emulator board wasn't cheap. In its day cost £320 and boasted turning your Amiga into an IBM compatible PC. On the screen of the Checkmate you will see a disk marker and thats where this story ends. I use the 1060 to emulate PC. Better I use my IBM PC/1 for Windows 3.1 and the 5.25" drive.

Going now.

[scuzzb494]

I have managed to edit the PC1 mountfile.

When I doubleclick it I get an errormessage:

BuffMemType is not a valid keyword.

Also with the keyword Glovec.

Is it a syntax error?

When I remove both lines (Buffmemtype and Glovec) and mount PC1 I get a software failure: PC1: Program failed (error #80000004)

The keyword Unit = 2. I thought it had to be 1?

Hope you can help.

My bad sorry...

See this image

http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/scuzzblog_july17/car_sbd_270717_42.jpg

[scuzzb494]

Hi, Thanks for all the help.

I have edited this mount file as in your image and when I double click on it the 5.25" drive spins and it shows as PC1: NDOS When I try to format an 5.25" floppy, my A1200 freezes completely and I have to reboot it again.

What could be wrong here?

Is the PC1 mount file in the Devs/DOSdrivers drawer. Make sure you boot without a 5.25" in the floppy drive as on mine it does not recognise the disk. Next, is the NDOS appearing even without a disk in the drive. What happens when you insert a disk... you should see an Amiga disk style NDOS and a PC style NDOS so that you can either format as Amiga or PC.

Have you switched anything on the back of the drive.

Don't forget that there are no guarantees as we have no idea what the drive is and how they should work. On the PC I have to enable certain things from the BIOS to get some floppy drives working.

One final thing also.. it may be faulty.

We just keep trying. The fact that the computer locks up isn't a good sign I have to say Have you got SysInfo. If so check the drives from the button in SysInfo and see what it says about mounted drives.

One last thing.. bit like crossing the streams in Ghostbusters. I know I said that don't put a floppy in, well try booting with a 5.25" and see if the drive activates when you boot the Amiga.

Have you edited the info icon as I said ... not the mount file but the info file.

[scuzzb494]

Have you tried the AmigaZ80 program from Aminet for CP/M on the Amiga?  I uploaded it and have been working on & off with getting many programs onto the "CP/M disk" to run & eventually replace it with the "CP/M disk" file having many CP/M programs pre-loaded segregated by each "disk" grouping different applications & USER areas grouping different programs within the same application.

I had a quick look at it today. Didn't really understand this line ' Copy the appropriate CPU version into that newly created directory AS:Z80. ' The new directory is called CPM2.2 and the appropriate Z80, well I'm 040 so I go with that... but where and what is AS:Z80 ? I'll read all the stuff again. Struggling to see how this would boot without a command tool in C and it says nothing about copying anything to C and I'm in the main OS 3.9. I can see the assign from that line but just need help with firing up the basic Z80 can't see how that is triggered. If you know then maybe you could help. Ta .

[scuzzb494]

I am not sure what you mean by editing the info file and not the mount file??

When I don't double click on the PC1 file the drive pops up as DF1:?

When I try to format it the format utility start and after clicking on format the drives spins and a couple of seconds later I get the following error message:

I/O-error #21

When I insert a disk into the drive and starting up my Amiga, the drive spins.

Checked it with SysInfo:

The result:

NUMBER OF DISK ERRORS                   0
UNIT NUMBER                                     1
DISK STATE                                        Disk not validated
TOTAL NUMBER OF BLOCKS                 1758
TOTAL BLOCKS USED                          1757
BYTES PER BLOCK                               488
DRIVE/DISK TYPE                               No disk inserted (doesn't change after inserting a disk. Reason: not formatted??)
DEVICE NAME                                     trackdisk.device
SURFACES                                          2
SECTORS PER SIDE                             11
RESERVED BLOCKS                             2
LOWEST CYLINDER                             0
HIGHEST CYLINDER                            79
NUMBER OF BUFFERS                         5

I have changed the PC1 mountfile as follows:

Device = trackdisk.device
Buffers = 5

....and the rest of the file I kept unchanged.

Now the disk comes up as PC1:? instead of PC1:NDOS

Also when I try to format it, my Amiga does not freeze. When I uncheck verify in the format utililty the format progress bar is running. Only the head of the drive does not move.

When I check verify and try to format I get the same error I/O-error #21

When I manually move the head of the drive to the center of the disk and switch on my Amiga the head moves to the edge of the disk.

You appear to have edited the PC drive for the 5.25" to act as the normal Amiga drive. The SysInfo you are looking at must be DF1 and not PC1 cus I thought you wanted to read PC disks. The file system should be MSDOS File System and the device mfm.device. DF1 is automatically mounted as part of the Amiga syatem. If you read the SYSInfo on DF0 you will also see trackdisk.device but you wont find a trackdisk.device in devs... it comes with the system.

.info files are the icon part of an Amiga tool. I advised earlier that to look at this you open the window where the PC1 tool is located. Right click to highlight the tool and check information from the menu at the top of the screen. The icon should relate to the tool.

I am not a tech head sadly. I was simply giving you the benefit of my config for my 5.25" drive and if that didn't work then sadly I can help no more. I have used my 5.25" drive today  running an Amiga disk and animation and also checked a PC disk MS-DOS. The drive mounts on boot and I have a large Amiga icon on the screen. The config for my machine is as I advised. What your drive is I cannot say.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help. Perhaps someone else can chip in with some clues. I have no idea what the working mechanics of the physical drive is . Beyond me sadly.

Good luck.

PS I wanted you to check SysInfo to see if the PC1 drive was being mounted. I am unclear as to whether that is the case.