A590 Oddities

[giZmo350]

Hi all! So I'm setting up my A590 Hard Drive for my Rev 3 A500, KS1.2 & WB1.3.3.......  I'm using a Conner 512MB hard drive divided into two partitions.

OK, not relevant as I used a questionable 4GB HDD the first time. I first used a 4GB HDD and the WB2.1 install disk to partition and the A590 install disk to format and came with a ton of validation & disk errors - okay scratch that!

Did some Google-ing and peeps suggest using WB3.1 to partition and format the HDD - so I did that with a 512MB HDD and NO validation or disk errors after installing WB1.3.3 using the A590 installation disk. The A590 install disk just copies WB1.3 to the HDD.

All went well after creating the A590 BOOT disk (needed due to the KS1.2 ROM). However, when the system boots I have two additional icons on the desktop screen mimicking the real partitions named that are named "WB" and "WORK" drives (you can't see them in the pic).

They show up as DH0:DOS and DH1:DOS.

Is there any way to suppress, hide or eliminate these? I also Googled that anomaly and it has something to do with partitioning / formatting with WB3.1 then installing WB1.3.3 to the HDD. I can't figure it out though. Any help appreciated! 

Since I switched from a 4GB HDD to a 512MB HDD (divided into two equal partitions) and had better results, should I just use try using the HDToolBox utility that came with WB1.3.3 or with WB2.1, instead of WB3.1?

I guess I'm probably just resolved to try any and all combinations!   

This A590 is being included for free in my A500 sale so I'd like it to perfect.
https://forum.amiga.org/index.php?topic=74507.0

[giZmo350]

Thanks for your reply Pauly! I revised the first post... please take a read all....   
I have a feeling many others have traveled down this road!   
I also think that using a HDD smaller than 4GB will net better results with WB1.3.3.

Paul, I thought I read a post of yours (could be years old) that suggested a primary partition size for WB1.3 - can't find the post now though....  what would you suggest?

[giZmo350]

Okay, so at the moment trying to setup the 512MB HDD with only the A590 Install disk.....  this may take a while!  I partitioned the primary @ 100MB.

Hoping this goes well............

[giZmo350]

Not going as planned..... Using WB1.3.3's HDToolBox utility, I can create a DH0: boot participation, format & name it, no problem. However, for the life of me, I can't figure out how to create a DH1: Partition! 

Never mind.... I did it but not sure how (what an odd piece of code!)
I think.... I clicked in the graph bar empty space, then clicked "New Partition"..... then moved the slider triangle to the end of the drive space....   then clicked save changes.

Now........     "Initializing DH1:  Verifying cyl 539, 1267 to go"   & there's a yellow HDD activity LED that's On Fire!   

[giZmo350]

Bloody Hell! I got a message after a 30 minute initialization that said "NOT a DOS Disk". However, DH0: named "WB" survived.

Gonna save this for another day!   

.....or next up, bust out the Rev6 A500 and whack the drive with a dose of Workbench 2.1!  LOL

OUT!

[giZmo350]

Spent the afternoon setting up the A590 on a rev6a A500 w/3.1 Rom. Used WB2.1 & HDInstallTools to partition and format the HDD. Installed WB1.3.3 with the A590 Setup Disk and everything went perfect!

Plugged the A5090 into the Rev3 A500 and I get "Can't find DH0:"

Another odd observation, after installing WB1.3.3 on the Rev6a A500, all the icons are placed on the left side of the screen as normal. However, after an install on the Rev3 A500, all the icons are placed on the right side of the screen.

Sheeeesh......   any ideas?

[giZmo350]

Was there a fastfilesystem in the RDB? 2.x onwards has it in ROM, 1.3 doesn't.

I suppose not! This would make total sense.

I've read so many posts on installing WB1.3 to a HDD that my head is swimming. No one has ever stated this fact the way you have. I always assumed there was FFS in the RDB. In forum posts, I always read "USE PFS3 or REPLACE the file system with PFS3. No one has ever stated "ADD" a file system because there isn't one there. So, thanks for this Jope!

I tried installing PFS3 to the RDB using the 1.2/1.3 ROM and the A590 Setup disk or HDInstallTools and, even though I can detect the drive (you can tell it's acting funny), whenever I tried to write the RDB back to the A590 it would never stick. As a matter of fact, the modified partition parameters would never stick. Must be that the first time I tried this, and was somewhat successful, FFS was installed to the BOOT disk the A590 Setup disk has you create.

In all my Amiga years, this is the first time I've ever attempted to install anything less than WB2.X using a 2.X ROM to this A590.

So, a couple of questions if I may....

1. Since I was able to get the modified partition parameters to stick using a Rev6a machine with a 3.1ROM, do you think I'll be successful adding PFS3 (or even FFS - where would I get it?) to the RDB and it then work with a 1.2/1.3 ROM? I'm really thinking that I would prefer using a version of FFS though! Where would I snag FFS from while adding a file system to the RDB? Put it on a floppy? Or will I just run into validation/disk errors & those additional odd disk icons again using FFS?

2. Is this version of PFS3 by Toni Wilen suitable?
https://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/pfs3aio

3. Are the instructions from this site correct?
http://thecryptmag.com/Online/17/harddriveguide.html

To upgrade to a new file system, complete the Following steps:

 1. Copy the new file system to the L: directory.
 2. Start up HDToolbox and enter Partition Drive screen.
 3. Select the partition you wish to update.
 4. Click on Advanced Options and then on 'Add/Update...' button.
 5. Click on 'Add New File System ...' and a dialog box will appear.
    (you can use Update if updating an existing file system).
 6. Enter path and name of the new file system e.g. 'L:FastFileSystem'.
 7. It will display the DosType (in hex) & the version, revision numbers.
 8. Click on OK until the main menu appears.
 9. To commit the changes click on 'Save Changes to Drive'.
 10. Exit and reboot to use the new file system. If necessary, format the
     new partition ready to be used.

In step 1. above, is that necessary? Can I just grab the new file system from floppy using an external floppy drive or do I have to place the actual file system somewhere on the A590 install afterwards (that seems like a chicken/egg impossibility though)?

I'm on like, day 4 of this project.... I'm glad I'm taking my time!

Thanks so much for your reply Jope! 

[giZmo350]

Fantastic detailed reply Jope!  Super thanks!

Yea, sorry for all the questions however I have a motive for that. I would like the correct way of doing this cached to Google once and for all! 

[giZmo350]

Jumpin Jahosafats! Followed Jopes instructions to the T! Twice! FAILURE! I used the Rev6a A500 thru the whole process. Plug the A590 into the Rev3 A500; NO HD1.

So I thought I would just retool and revert to what I had in the first post!

Mounted the A590 onto the Rev3 A500 and popped in the A590 Setup Disk.

Ran HDTools and repartitioned with default setting. Saved & Rebooted. Ran HDTools again and, for only the second time, HDTools asked to me identify the drive type.

I had two choices; both, Quantum XXX40 & xxx80. The sticker on the drive states that it's a Conner CP3500. A 510MB drive. Which it is. Knowing this, I queried the drive and... it came up as a Conner CP3500. Good! Go with it! Been using that drive type throughout this journey. The Rev6a machine assumes it's a 510MB drive and is used, as that, perfectly.

However, on this last ditch effort, I chose the default Quantum XXX80. The drive was then reported as an 80MB drive. Then I partitioned as one drive. Formatted it, and it was about 100 times faster!

Then installed WB1.3.3 and everything went perfect!

Learned a lot the past days! Thanks again Jope!

So, a question to the masses. Just where does the failure lie between the two machines when detecting the hard drive's geometry?

And, is there a lesson to be learned here?   

[giZmo350]

Hi Matt, thanks much for your reply!
A couple of things I omitted in my last reply.

Following the instructions to replace the file system worked perfect using the Rev6a machine. So I finally learned how to do that.

I also tried swapping back the original Gary chip - no help there.

I also swapped the original Rev6.6 ROMS into the A590 - no help there.

For all the exercises performed yesterday, I used a V1.3 ROM in the Rev3 machine for convenience.

To speed things up, I didn't even need to go thru the process of an alternative file system. I would just format a 10MB partition using the Rev6a machine and check to see if the Rev3 machine would then recognize the partition without getting a "DH0:" not found. It always fails.

Using the A590 Setup Disk, I would "scan" the drive and it would come up with the correct "type" as a Conner CP3500 - 510MB. Then format a 10MB partition using the Rev3 machine and check to see if the machine would then recognize the partition without getting a "DH0:" not found. It's really slow and it always fails.

So, no need to even go thru the rest of the process.

That's when I thought to just give the Quantum "Drive Type" a try using the A590 Setup Disk plugged into the Rev3 machine. Worked perfect(as 80MB). No matter what, using the A590 with the Rev3 machine simply can't recognize the drives geometry when using it as a 510MB "Type".

I don't believe this is a software issue. I think it's a HW issue. But I'm not sure where issue lies. The Rev3 machine or the A590. The only other culprit I can think of is the DMAC(S) chips on the A590. I'm going to open the A590 back up and check the part number(s). They will either be 390563-01 or 390563-02. I'm not familiar with the difference though. I'll report back later.

I also tried searching for a newer A590 Setup Disk but came up empty. 

Thanks again Matt!

[giZmo350]

Hmmm. If you already eliminated Kickstart 1.2 as a possible cause then I agree you're probably looking at a hardware issue. The next question is whether it's a hardware fault (i.e., something broken due to age) or a hardware bug (my understanding is that the rev. 3 500 is pretty buggy).

Yeah, I'll bet they are fairly buggy. Plus, it's hard to dig up relevant information on the Rev3 machines these day as most people have probably dropped them to the wayside, except for maybe collectors. I've owned the Rev3 for 15 years and other than floppy based use, this is the first time really digging into it.

Just to make sure you're not overlooking the obvious, is the drive known to be 100% good?

As old as it is, I seems to be healthy. Another thought I had, and I've seen this before, is that the controller on the hard drive may have been replaced from another drive that does not have the same geometry as the Conner CP3500 platters - however, I doubt it. 

DMAC is worth looking into, as you say. Big Book of Amiga Hardware says the 590 typically shipped with DMAC -01, but it can't hurt to try DMAC -02.

Yeah, I might try that too just for fun. But, like you said, maybe it's just what it is and I probably should take what I can get - 80MB that is. I think I'll also try another SCSI drive and repeat the small partition process and see what happens - that might expose or eliminate the Conner drive as a suspect.

To close the book on possible software issues, give the 2091 v1.30 disk a try if you haven't already, along with 7.0 ROMs if you have them (or track down the disk-based version if you don't).

Thanks for A2091 hint Matt. I located that SW and DL'ed it today. Will for sure try that 1st thing. . Yes, I've been using V7.0 ROMS except for one test of swapping in the V6.6 ROMs. BTW, did Commodore put out official V7.0 ROMs? The ones I have were burned that I got off ebay at least a decade ago.



I'll get back to this in a couple of days now that I can perform some compatibility tests much quicker. I did quit a bit of research on the DMAC today but didn't really find a reason why I should have them. Update to follow - hopefully won't be so long winded! 

[giZmo350]

One other thing I just remembered... maybe.

I have an A3000 with the 1.4 dual-boot ROMs. I've reconfigured the hard drive a few times, but I seem to recall there was one iteration ages ago where booting into 1.3 produced dummy icons on the Workbench like you have in your first post. I think it was something to do with the partitions being set to FFS Intl (DOS\03) while only having plain FFS (DOS\01) in the RDB, or having the wrong version of FFS in the RDB. Or maybe there was no FFS in the RDB at all? I don't remember, exactly, but I did eventually solve it.

I think the OS 2.x/3.x versions of HDToolbox might default its partitions to FFS Intl instead of plain FFS, which might explain the issue in your first post.

So try prepping the drive under OS 2/3 again, but make sure that the DOS Type of your partitions matches the DOS Type of the file system in the RDB.

Also, if you have a 2.04/2.05/2.1 Install disk, there a newer disk-based version of FastFileSystem on that disk that's designed for 1.3 compatibility--might be worth a try.

Ah! I did not pay attention to make sure that the DOS Type of the partitions matched the DOS Type of the file system in the RDB the first time I set it all up - which may have resulted in the dummy partitions. I do have an original WB2.1 Install disk - I'll try this again as the first time I was able to use the full 510MB with the Rev3 machine. Thanks Matt!

[giZmo350]

Ah yes...  RTFM!    Already have it but, thanks scuzz.   

[giZmo350]

CASE CLOSED! 

Jope and Matt's instructions are superb!
I can perform different install scenarios without failure.

However, I screwed the pooch on one instruction from Jope EVERY SINGLE TIME!

"Always always format quick when formatting hard drives."

Final install; Used WB2.1 Install disk w/Rev6a machine & V3.1ROM*.
Partitioned DH0: 100MB. DH1:348MB
Formatted partitions QUICK.
I plugged the A590 into the Rev3 machine. No dummy drives as in post #1.
Installed WB1.3.3. from A590 Setup Disk using Rev3 machine. DONE!
No dummy drives as in post #1 after I plugged in the A590
The whole process took appx. 30 minutes.

Thanks much guys!

*Could this all have been accomplished with just using the Rev3 machine? Well, WB1.3 GUI does not present a "quick format" option. I tried using a WB1.3 SHELL command and the FORMAT command does have a QUICK format switch however, the FORMAT command doesn't seem to work at all even using the simplest syntax [format dh0:] - not sure why.

Therefore, use the following syntax (exactly) when formatting the partitions. This will format DH0: with the name Workbench and DH1: with the name Work respectively.

Format DRIVE DH0: NAME Workbench QUICK
Format DRIVE DH1: NAME Work QUICK

Hope this helps someone else out there!

@P81....  "Install Disk"  LOL Right? I meant "Startup Disk" 'er... "BIOS Disk" 'er... Oh Yeah! Setup Disk!