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Author Topic: Amiga Coldfire project dead?  (Read 13520 times)

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Offline bloodline

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Re: Amiga Coldfire project dead?
« Reply #14 from previous page: November 18, 2010, 01:27:16 PM »
Quote from: Karlos;592765
Hey, don't get your knickers in a twist :) I'm not knocking the Falcon. Of course the DSP is certainly useful for more than just audio, but since we're talking about the time it was first released, there wasn't a lot (IIRC) that used the DSP for non-audio purposes. Just as much later, the A1200 found new capabilities through third party expansions, so people also found new uses for the Falcon's DSP.


Hmmm... Not sure of your train of thought here... Third party expansion is quite different to finding new uses for already existing hardware... I would agree with you if someone had managed to figure out how to do double precision floating point math with the copper (to the non technical: you can't, don't try ;)).

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Not sure how much I believe that. Since we're comparing same era hardware here, AGA managed to retain a respectable degree of backwards compatibility without resorting to using a 16-bit data bus between the CPU/custom chips and certainly not for it's interface to normal (fast) RAM.


I'm not sure either here, but I don't know anything about the ST or the Falcon's schematics so I can't. Say anything for sure... But (basically) doubling the number of traces on a circuit board is more of a cost issue than a technical one.

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Sure, I acknowledge the time gap, but since we are now in the present, we can compare what the machines have become since. I stand by the observation that you can now build a significantly more powerful A1200 than you can a Falcon, with the exception of which has the fastest 68K processor; there's just nothing comparable to the CT60 board in the Amiga scene. I'd love to see something similar :D


Careful not to confuse the issue though! My assertion was that the Atari Falcon's hardware was an order of magnitude better than the A1200... I think that point still stands.

Put more simply, had commodore realeased both the A1200 and the falcon (running AmigaOS of course, possibly with a cost option for ECS compatibility)... I would have opted for the Falcon... How about you?

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Re: Amiga Coldfire project dead?
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2010, 01:59:29 PM »
It wasn't until very recently that (I think) Piru explained how Akiko worked to me... I was horrified... It is a total waste of time, clearly they had a bit of space left on the CD controller silicon and squeezed it in :(

I had thought it was (at least) more like a blotter that performed the bit translation on the fly...

Yeah, had the A1200 had fast ram as standard the CPU performance would have pissed on the Falcon base model... But we are dreaming again :(

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Re: Amiga Coldfire project dead?
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2010, 02:22:52 PM »
Quote from: AJCopland;592788
@Piro/Bloodline
How does Akiko work? I take it you mean C2P conversion. I never bothered to find out before.

Andy
Read Karlos's post :)

You write chunky pixel data, read back planar...

Offline bloodline

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Re: Amiga Coldfire project dead?
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2010, 03:12:48 PM »
Quote from: Franko;592806
Holy crap... :eek:



Well Im off to see what other amazing things this can do... :)

Sorry, but I just had to tell someone... :D


Just wait until you try an intel Mac... I guess you'll get one next boring Sunday :)

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Re: Amiga Coldfire project dead?
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2010, 12:29:41 AM »
Quote from: Tension;592932
On a more serious note, I always thought that AGA was a different architecture than OCS/ECS, and thus, I cant see how it could be called a Kludge.

Perhaps ECS was a kludge...
AGA was a kludge... A few extra fetch modes and a few extra biplanes and a few extra DMA channels... Nothing really exciting at all :(

-edit- to be fair to the commodore engineers, they did the best they could given the lack of resources :(
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 12:39:59 AM by bloodline »
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Amiga Coldfire project dead?
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2010, 12:21:07 PM »
Quote from: Karlos;593030
Actually, a friend had a first generation Acorn RiscPC. Was a nice system, no question, and the chunky based display a lot faster than AGA but the CPU performance was not that great, depending on the task. My first A1200 accelerator card (25MHz 040), for example, was considerably faster at decoding jpeg images than it was, for example.
Yeah I have to also note that the A1200 vs the Archimedies A3020 (I think, it was the last desktop wedge they did), the Amiga was just generally faster and I'm not sure why as the Archi was higher spec'd very weird :-/

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Re: Amiga Coldfire project dead?
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2010, 12:25:14 PM »
The RiscPC was actually released about '96ish :) it was Acorn's last machine

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Re: Amiga Coldfire project dead?
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2010, 01:07:28 PM »
Quote from: Hattig;593037
To be fair the A3000 series used an 8MHz ARM2 processor, which was far faster than a 68000, but certainly couldn't compete with a 25MHz '040 ... maybe a 20MHz 68030...
Karlos is referring to the "RiscPC", not the Archimedies... I appreciate those who didn't grow up with these machines might find this all quite confusing :)

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Re: Amiga Coldfire project dead?
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2010, 01:14:02 PM »
Quote from: Hattig;593039
The BBC A3000 with 1 MB RAM came out in May 1989 for £799.

The Acorn A3010 with 1 MB RAM came out in September 1992 for £499.

The A1200 with 2MB RAM and about half the CPU power came out at the same time for £399, and soon reduced to £299. I guess CPU power was the tradeoff you got for the cheaper price.
Actually I think the Archimedes used a 12Mhz CPU... But I was comparing my A1200 sock with the stock A3020 and noting that the A1200 was generally faster in pretty much all areas I tried... The Acorn was just clunky :(

Karlos was comparing the RiscPC with is accelerated Amiga, so his comparison was quite valid.

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Re: Amiga Coldfire project dead?
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2010, 01:31:10 PM »
Quote from: Hattig;593049
Ah yes, I missed that, I just saw the A3000 stuff. And yes, the 1992 were 12MHz, and thus the CPU should have performed like a 25MHz 68030 ... but I don't think coders ever hit the peaks on this hardware.

RiscOS had some shortcomings (co-op multitasking, for example) which must have affected things. Also I don't think the graphics chip was up to much in terms of neat features apart from a funky 256 colour mode despite only having 16 colour registers, so simple things like scrolling would have been very CPU intensive.
Sounds about right to me! I suspect the Amiga's more mature and more elegant DMA based gfx/audio architecture took a lot of pressure off the CPU... I think an A1200 with an ARM (in 1992) would have been a VERY nice beast!! :)

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Re: Amiga Coldfire project dead?
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2010, 02:55:24 PM »
Quote from: nicholas;593069
I bought my A1200 on the day of release for £399 from Dixons.

No software with it whatsoever apart from the Workbench 3.0 disks and a voucher for a game from Ocean.

@Matt

Do you still have an Archie? If so, perhaps you could send it to Pavel or Michal and see whether AROS performs better than RISCOS on it? :)
Nope, I never had one... Though I do have RedSquirrel emulator on a hard drive somewhere :)

@Karlos... It would be a bit weird... All the old 80s/early 90s machines running an AmigaOS clone... One OS to rule them all!!! :-o