Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: What happened to Coldfire?  (Read 4944 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12113
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: What happened to Coldfire?
« on: February 05, 2009, 01:43:43 PM »
The coldfire is not that powerful when compared with the PPC and not very 68k compatible... It would require just as much work as a PPC to support...

Also PPC is a sunk ship now...ARM and x86-64 are where it's at!

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12113
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: What happened to Coldfire?
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2009, 02:08:16 PM »
Quote

arnljot wrote:
What about the cell?

Performance wise, not performance vs $$$ - how does it stack up both in terms what is out now and what's in it's roadmap and it's ability to survive.


The PPC part of the Cell is rather unimpressive and the SPEs are totally incompatible with anything Amiga. The Xenon in the XBox360 is much more cool, but only because it has 3cores... AmigaOS can't support SMP so it is also a mute point... Both of this chips suck for desktop use when compare to both intel's and AMD's latest offerings.

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12113
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: What happened to Coldfire?
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2009, 02:10:48 PM »
Quote

Crumb wrote:
@bloodline

Quote
Also PPC is a sunk ship now...ARM and x86-64 are where it's at!


That's the reason all next-gen consoles use PPC.


ISA licensing is the reason for PPC use in the current consoles, PPC is a powerful chip design, good for embedded apps and is easy to licence... Obvious choice really. PPC still needs to watch it's heels for the ARM, if any company wanted to take the ARM from the mobile world, the PPC would be dead in the water...

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12113
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: What happened to Coldfire?
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2009, 02:30:08 PM »
Quote

arnljot wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:
AmigaOS can't support SMP so it is also a mute point...


Are we assuming that this will be the case for ever for OS4?

The design of AmigaOS isn't suited to multiprocessing... If OS4 wants to remain compatible with AmigaOS 3.1... Multiprocessing is really out...
Quote

Also, isn't there also other versions of cell other than the one in the PS3?


There are ones with 7SPEs and ones with 8... The PPC core on there is being used as a controler... Not really a desktop class CPU...

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12113
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: What happened to Coldfire?
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2009, 03:38:04 PM »
@Crumb

But SPEs aren't much use to desktop tasks... The Cell is hot power hungry chip which still needs a decent GPU to perform well...

The Xenon is a better desktop chip... but this is all mute, who is going to waste their time writing software that needs serious horse power for an exotic platform with no user base and non standard hardware... You already have more of a chance if your hardware is stardard desktop kit...

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12113
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: What happened to Coldfire?
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2009, 03:47:05 PM »
Quote

Colani1200 wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:
The Xenon in the XBox360 is much more cool.


Wow, a gaming console with head lamps?


Wikipedia Xenon Xbox :-)

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12113
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: What happened to Coldfire?
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2009, 05:20:22 PM »
Quote

Crumb wrote:
@bloodline

Quote
Also PPC is a sunk ship now...ARM and x86-64 are where it's at!


That's the reason all next-gen consoles use PPC.


Just a quick update to this, the next Sony console may well use x86-64  based CPU, since intel look set to be designing the next system... And there is word that MicroSoft will shift back towards the x86 also... Nintendo will probably stick with PPC.

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12113
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: What happened to Coldfire?
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2009, 06:22:15 PM »
Quote

AJCopland wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Quote

Crumb wrote:
@bloodline

Quote
Also PPC is a sunk ship now...ARM and x86-64 are where it's at!


That's the reason all next-gen consoles use PPC.


Just a quick update to this, the next Sony console may well use x86-64  based CPU, since intel look set to be designing the next system... And there is word that MicroSoft will shift back towards the x86 also... Nintendo will probably stick with PPC.

Gotta ask, where did you hear that?

I work with both platforms and we've not heard anything.

That's not to say that they'll do anything that's expected for either platform I'm just curious.


Rumours, from the various news sites... might come to nothing, but I like to keep up with the latest goings on!

Today's rumour:

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/851/1050851/intel-design-playstation-gpu

Quote

As for your other assertions that PPC is dead, well, I'm confused by it. They still sell in the tens of millions into non-desktop areas (embedded), servers and supercomputers are still using them oh and then they are in all 3 of the *current* gen of consoles which sell millions.

They're not as powerful as a modern CPU like the Core i7 or Phenom II etc but then they are several years older.


Well, I always err towards the Desktop... since the Amiga is a desktop platform... I kinda though that is what we are looking at... If you read my earlier posts I did say the PPC has some nice embeded implementations... I don't deny that... but I wonder how much more dev will be spent on it in future... Probably only IBM will spend anything on development in the future...

I expect intel will start making more embeded wins in future with it's new "atom" line of chips... and the ARM can't be beaten for low power consumption and decent performance...

Quote

One small correction, Cell comes with 4 or 8 SPEs, 8 in the PS3 and usually 4 SPEs in the plugin card versions you can buy for use in desktop PCs.

Andy


Sorry, I wasn't aware of any 4SPE chips... though I do recal Toshiba saying something... blah!

Anyway, the Cell is not a desktop chip... any more than Sun's Niarga chips are...

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12113
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: What happened to Coldfire?
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2009, 08:35:33 AM »
Quote

AJCopland wrote:
Oh I ignore the Inquirer, its a joke :) I mean this is the place that think nVidia paid Intel to get SLi support in the X58 chipset! And the article you linked to think that nVidia pulled the same stunt with Sony that they managed with MS on the Xbox1.


Yeah, since  Mike Magee left it has gone down hill :-( but they do get a lot of the rumours before anyone else... I'm happy to have a place like that, despite their near perpetual Apple bashing, since there is often a few golden nuggets in there. :-)

Quote

Next you'll be believing that Larrabee is an actual threat to ATi+AMD/nVidia GPUs :-D


Actually, if you remember we had a discussion about the future of computer graphics and I am actually in the Real Time Raytracing camp... So I do see Larrabee as a future contender... Actually, I see Larrabee as something like the Cell, but done right... ok, ok that is a very subjective opinion on my part.

Newer NVidia/AMD designs are going to look more like Larabee/Cell in the future, of that I have no doubt.

Quote

I wouldn't like to guess what CPUs or GPUs are going to be used for the next-gen but they've certainly already been designing them either in parallel with the current-gen designs or after only a short break. So the idea that they're "about to start" is unlikely :/


Now this I whole heartedly agree with you upon! I would be surprised if the development cycle was less than 5 years and we are expecting new machines in 2010/11...

Quote

ARM aren't a desktop CPU either, you can't claim the PPC is dead on the desktop and then suggest that ARM would be good *if* someone did a desktop version.


No, and if you read my posts, you will see that I agree there PPC has had a lot of development work done upon it. Any implementation you can licence now is going to be really well suited to most applications I can think of... but, I'm not sure how much future development work is going to be spent on the PPC ISA... Buying an ARM licence and then optimising it to the task seems more sensible now.

If I was looking to start a new system now, I would have a hard time choosing between either an x86-64 or an ARM... My instincts say go with the ARM... simply due to the Low power implementations...

Quote

If its going in an Amiga and you want to maintain compatibility with OS4 etc then its going to be PPC for the time being.



I don't know, since everything that I want to run is 68k and hardware hitting, the only solution available to me is emulation... in such cases it doesn't matter what CPU is sitting under the hood...

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12113
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: What happened to Coldfire?
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2009, 08:39:40 AM »
Quote

AJCopland wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Sorry, I wasn't aware of any 4SPE chips... though I do recal Toshiba saying something... blah!

Anyway, the Cell is not a desktop chip... any more than Sun's Niarga chips are...

Yeah its Sonys fault. Basically we've got direct access to 7 of the 8 SPEs in the PS3. they use the other for... well for whatever they want :-D

The 4 SPE Cell put on the plugin cards allows you access to all 4. During the development of the PS3 though they touted using 2x4SPE Cell chips in the PS3 but when developer actually started getting the early kits it was a single Cell with 7 available (1 for Sony) etc.

Hence the proliferation of SPE versions.

Andy


I think the 7SPE rule is just to push up Cell yields... The Cell is a HUGE chip, and the PS3 is a high volume device... I expect the failure rate of 8SPE chips is very large...

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12113
    • Show all replies
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: What happened to Coldfire?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2009, 01:52:09 PM »
Well my point is not that x86 is all pervasive... but simply that the choice of ISA is simply based on what you have a licence for now, there is very little technical reason to use one or the other.