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Author Topic: Windows Vista: Microsoft's Terminator  (Read 7144 times)

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Re: Windows Vista: Microsoft's Terminator
« on: July 23, 2005, 11:38:40 AM »
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Waccoon wrote:
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I still can't believe Apple are ditching PowerPC for Pentiums... just when things were looking up and Microsoft starts using Mac development kits for XBox-360... Apple goes and starts using Intel chips!

Idiots!

What's the big deal?  It's still a Mac.

Besides, Apple didn't have much choice.  I'll leave it to some rare, non-prejudiced Mac expert to dish out the details.




I'll do it Waccon :-)

Ok, lets get the facts straight, things are NOT looking up for the PPC. The PPC has found it's place as an embedded chip, it's placement in the future games consoles only re-enforces that position. In the PS3, it's little more than a controler (remember the 68000 in the Atari Jaguar?), in the XBox360 it is used to provide a small core multiprocessing platform which M$ can hold some IP control over.

In both machines the tight integration of the mid-power CPU with the extremely powerful GFX chips are the key to their performance,

For the Dektop/Laptop (ie general purpose computing platform), IBM would have to plough massive funds into the PPC 970 development... It's getting harder and harder to ramp the speed without the chips getting so hot that they NEED liquid cooling... and given that the future of general purpose computing is almost certainly in the mobile arena (ie Laptops)- or at least Apple think so- someone would need to fund development of cool high performance PPC chips... Apple can't aford to do it, IBM don't need to do it... The PPC is no longer an option for Apple...

Intel on the other hand have a very powerful chip that runs very cool and uses very litle power... the Pentium-M, which IMHO is the best Mobile chip available at the moment. The Intel roadmap shows that in two years the Pentium-M will be a dual core 64bit chip in the high 2Ghz region.

What choice did Apple have?

Ok, right now the Freescale 7447A (or the "G4" in Apple laptop parlance) is just about able to struggle along with the Pentium-M... but again Freescale don't have the money to take it to a dual core, 64bit multi Ghz Chip... it will develop, but at the same slow rate that has crippled the line.



This post was written and posted on a PowerBook G4

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Re: Windows Vista: Microsoft's Terminator
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2005, 06:08:31 PM »
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Hammer wrote:
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the Pentium-M, which IMHO is the best Mobile chip available at the moment.

Note that AMD's Turion 64 already rivals Intel's Dothan.
Refer to
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=51&threadid=1635962&STARTPAGE=2&enterthread=y
 
Unlike Dothan, AMD Turion 64 has support for SSE3 and X64 ISA.  


It's good to see AMD getting back on track :-) I hate having to say intel have a good product ;-)

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Re: Windows Vista: Microsoft's Terminator
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2005, 11:03:51 AM »
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Hyperspeed wrote:

As for slow Transmeta Crusoe, I saw a 1GHz model and Sony obviously approved of it for it to be in the flagship Vaio laptops!


IIRC the crusoe was only used in Sony's ultraportables... Anyway, the crusoe was never really about performance, it was about power consumption. It could never really compete with even the slowest x86 mobile chips from AMD or Intel in terms of performance. Now ARM have won the power consumption race.

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And wasn't it well reported that the Dual-G5 Macs were outperforming even the highest rated Pentium machines?


Steve Jobs reality distortion field taking effect there... Perfromace per $ of the Dual-G5 Mac was much worse than x86 machines*. Though you do get multiprocessing, MacOS X and a beautiful case with it...



*Note: I still want a Dual G5 Mac with Tiger :-D

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Apple ran an advert proclaiming the PowerPC G5 Mac to be the most powerful computer in the world!


Apple had to remove the claim in the UK, as after an investigation by the "Avertising Standards Agency", Apple were unable to prove their claim.


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Isn't RISC producing much less heat than a comparable speed CISC chip?


Don't fall into that trap, the terms RISC and CISC haven't really meant much since the late 80's.

The PPC is not a RISC chip (look at the MIPS chip if you want to see RISC), the PPC is better described as a Load-Store chip with a neat architecture. But the Modern x86 and the PPC both borrow as many features from both RISC and CISC designs as each other (though not necessary the same features ;-)).

It is true that the x86 ISA does incur penalties, like instruction decoding and lack of architectural registers, which does add to the transistor count when trying to correct (one of the reasons why a basic PPC core can be much smaller than an x86 core). But it turns out that the archtiectural improvements made to the x86 to overcome the limitations, actaully actually improved execution by several factors... notable out of order execution and branch prediction, which is a vital speed boots to current single core CPUs.